Foreskin stories: Pt. 1
I recently fell into the habit of asking my male friends about their penises. Not having unlimited access to one myself, I'm curious about what it's like to not only have a penis, but to have a penis that is different from the penis one was born with. Why are some of my friends circumcised while others aren't, and what prompts some parents to opt out of such a standardized procedure? Interestingly, these questions are usually met with excitement and enthusiasm from guy pals as we suddenly become engrossed in conversations about how their appendages came to look the way they did. I've gained so much insight into the private world of my friends' private parts that I started asking the same questions to new and expecting parents.
The World Health Organization (WHO) estimates about 30% of men are circumcised worldwide, yet the procedure of removing the foreskin (usually within 48 hours of birth) is general practice in American hospitals, with an estimated 60-75% of American-born males circumcised every year. While circumcision has been ritualized by many religions for centuries, its non-religious practice became popularized in American hospitals by the 1930s. The alleged health and hygiene benefits of foreskin removal have been heartily challenged in recent decades with the advent of frequent bathing and new developments in understanding the acquisition of sexually transmitted infections. Human rights groups have contested the acceptance of circumcision as a "normal" practice, citing consent, physical pain and emotional trauma as a few of the many ethical dilemmas inherent in conducting the procedure on male infants. However, advocates argue health benefits of circumcision not only outweigh the risks, but the simple procedure has become so common in the U.S. that many parents fear a non-circumcised child will be teased about his foreskin.
Without engaging in the debate of whether one option is better or worse than the other, I was delighted that five male friends and three parenting couples were willing to share their foreskin stories with me. One could assume a random sampling of males I know would yield fewer foreskinned friends than circumcised, but of the five males I asked to talk about their penises, four are uncut.
Foreskin frenzy
Edward (24, graduate student), Nathan (28, IT), Matthew (31, graduate student) and Hoss (26, Lawyer) were all brave enough to shed some light on a few of the questions I had about being American males with foreskins.
Emma Reaux: Okay guys, I don't have a penis. Tell me what it's like to have one.
Edward: 95% of the day you don't notice it. Every now and then, you have to adjust, due to sitting in an awkward position or an involuntary erection. Also, it makes peeing easier, and you can write fun things in the snow.
Nathan: Zippers are a little dangerous at times, but other than that I really have no complaints.
Matthew: Women like it when I put it in them, which works great because I like putting it in them.
Hoss: The world is my toilet! Also, my penis has gotten me into a lot of trouble, because it has an amazing ability to control my thoughts.
ER: When did you first notice that not every male child has a foreskin?
E: The first time I saw my best friend in elementary school naked.
N: When I was seven, I walked in on my best friend changing and noticed he was not quite the same as I.
ER: What conversations did you have with your parents as a child, teen, or adult about not being circumcised?
H: My mom is Jewish which makes it all the weirder to have an anteater, but she said she and my dad had a conversation and thought that circumcision was barbaric and did not want to put my brother or myself through it, though obviously we would not have remembered.
N: My parents were not very open about sexuality or anything related to it, but they made sure I knew how to keep myself clean and healthy.
M: I was actually born in Europe, where most people are uncut, so this was never brought up.
ER: Why did your parents choose not to circumcise you? (If you haven't asked, call up right now and ask your mother!)
N: My parents decided not to have it done for multiple reasons. Since my first conversation about this with you, I have learned that my father is not circumcised. I was also born premature, so any unnecessary risks to my health were avoided, especially surgical procedures like circumcision. Neither of them had any strong religious convictions either way and decided together that they didn't want it done.
M: Europeans don't believe in genital mutilation (or free soda refills).
E: The answer, as I recall, was something along the lines of "we didn't see any point in it."
ER: Do you have brothers? Are they circumcised? What about your father?
E: I am almost positive my brother and father are not circumcised.
N: My brother, like me, is uncircumcised. My father is not. I didn't find this out until recently.
M: No siblings, and my father has his foreskin. My family has a strong tradition of not chopping off body parts upon birth.
H: My brother is not circumcised, but my dad is.
ER: Many arguments for circumcision (outside of religious contexts) cite hygiene issues and increased risk of STI transmission for those with foreskins. Did you ever feel you were at an increased risk for poor health outcomes due to your foreskin? 
N: I am a pretty clean guy, and have never had a problem with keeping it clean. I have never had an STI, but that may have more to do with being selective about my partners and always using condoms and safer sex practices.
M: Hygiene was never an issue: everything gets washed just like any other body part. As far as an increased risk of STI transmission, even if those studies are correct, they are often done on populations where condom use is scarce. So they're not applicable to the safe-sex practicing gentleman such as myself.
H: I worried for a bit as an adolescent, because I heard the stories, but I think it just makes you more cognizant of the risks, so you take better care of it. In that sense, it is almost healthier, if I may be so bold as to claim.
E: I have circumcised friends who tried to convince me that I was at greater risk, but I have come to the conclusion that this is just common opinion, rather than the result of their own research. So I've decided that no, I'm not really at risk. Admittedly, I haven't done much research myself.
ER: What are your thoughts about the assumption that circumcision is just "normal" in our culture and that "most" males are circumcised, so we should just keep up with the practice?
H: I would agree, it has definitely become the norm, even outside of religious contexts, and you feel a little weird being different. Some girls are into it though, because it is different. I have had several girlfriends play with it, just out of curiosity, like they are seeing a penis for the first time.
M: There are good traditions and there are bad traditions. Given how much the foreskin enhances pleasure, I find it unreasonable to support the practice of circumcision. Besides, if someone wants, he can get circumcised at any point in his adult life.
ER: Many parents who are trying to decide about circumcision for their male children worry about teasing in the locker room, or similar scenarios. Did you ever experience anything like this, and how did you handle it?
E: I don't know if I've been overtly teased, but I have felt "different" for most of my life. The guys I've told about it have usually acted surprised, as if being uncircumcised is bizarre and unorthodox. It has made me, and continues to make me, a bit self-conscious in locker rooms.
N: In all the schools I went to everyone was very modest, and more apt to make fun of you for "being gay" if you even looked at some else while getting dressed. We actually were only required to take showers before and after swim class, and we did that in swimsuits, so no real problems ever arose.
M: While I did not, I'm sure that others have. But so what? Fat kids, short kids, and ginger kids get made fun of as well, but you don't see many mothers eager to cut off little Timmy's belly fat.
H: I never experienced any teasing in the locker room. Most guys are already awkward being naked groups, and then it just turns into all of the regular locker room shenanigans. Plus, guys are assholes to begin with, and there is never a dearth of things to make fun of their buddies for, so potential teasing is not really a good reason to circumcise.
ER: How has having a foreskin impacted your personal pleasure and/or sex with yourself?
H: Allegedly, you get greater sensitivity from not being circumcised. I obviously only have the one penis, so I can't really compare.
M: It's a lot easier to masturbate if you have foreskin, since the sliding action of the skin means that you might not require as much lubricant. The foreskin is also very sensitive, providing for more pleasure while masturbating.
ER: How has it impacted your sex life with others?
E: This is where I think my case is somewhat unique. My foreskin is abnormally tight about the tip, which makes retraction uncomfortable when flaccid and impossible when erect or partially erect. For this reason I don't clean under the foreskin as often as I probably should, but I have never experienced an unnatural buildup of dirt or smegma. My foreskin is fine when masturbating, but sex requires lubrication, and even then care must be taken when penetrating so that the foreskin does not pull too tightly.
H: It has never prevented me from sleeping with someone, but there is a brief consideration in the beginning and invariably a conversation about it. Anyone who is sleeping with me has to be understanding anyway, and forgiving, so it is never a deal breaker.
M: Most of my experiences were positive. Only once was someone confused by it after the fact, but that didn't affect the experience. Everyone else was either excited or neutral.
ER: Has it increased communication with partners?
M: Since a lot of women asked me if they needed to do anything differently while performing oral sex, I'd say that being uncut has helped with communication. The answer is no, by the way.
H: Outside of normal conversations about girth, flavor and length, it is a conversation piece at the head of your penis, which probably leads to more open sexual conversations, including talks about STIs.
E: My partner and I have certainly discussed circumcision and the issues my tight foreskin causes with respect to sex. She has also encouraged me to make sure I am clean so that I don't give her any sort of infection.
ER: Is it something you tell partners about before the pants come off, or do you just let them figure it out?
N: I used to tell them beforehand, but when I stopped treating it like it was a big deal, it usually no longer was.
M: I rarely mention it. When the penis is erect, one retracts the foreskin and there's no difference between cut and uncut males. When the condom is put on, there's no difference at all. Otherwise, like with oral sex, women have figured it out just fine.
H: I always let them figure it out. If you stop before taking your pants off it makes it a much bigger deal than it actually is, and makes the other person more aware of it than if they just find out for themselves.
ER: Have you ever had a partner who reacted very strongly (negatively or otherwise) to your foreskin?
M: I've had some women get excited since they've never had sex with an uncut guy. Seems to be kind of a novelty 'round these parts.
H: Nothing outside of curiosity. I once had a girl drunkenly throw me on a bed and start unzipping my pants as she said, "I want to see your penis." That was pretty awesome, but is really the only memorable reaction.
N: I have had both negative and positive reactions. The negative reactions were never really all that bad-more or less a look of surprise that caught me off guard, or maybe a small comment because the partner had never been with someone uncircumcised. No one has ever been mean to me about it, or refrained from having sex with me because of it. A recent partner actually made me feel good about it, which is a welcome first. I was surprised when she said she thought it was "awesome" that I am uncircumcised. I haven't felt as comfortable with previous partners as I have been with her.
ER: Have you ever considered getting a circumcision? If so, what thoughts or events led you to that consideration? If not, describe why you are totally comfortable with being uncircumcised.
E: Because of my tight foreskin, I have considered getting a circumcision in order to make intercourse easier, but at this point, it's not worth it to me.
N: Yes, I have considered it. I think everyone worries if they are "normal." I really couldn't bare the thought of actually having what I feel is unnecessary surgery to "fit in."
M: Based on my experiences, the fact that I'm uncut plays virtually no role in my sex life with others, and only enhances the pleasure. I'm totally comfortable with being uncircumcised.
H: I have thought about it, but the pain and money have been deterrents. By now it is just one of those things I have, but maybe someday I would.
ER: If you had a son, would you circumcise him? Why/why not?
N: Absolutely not. Some people would go as far to say that its genital mutilation, but I just can't see any reason to remove something evolution has granted him to have.
E: Probably not, for the same reason my parents didn't, I see no compelling reason.
M: No, I'd want him to make the choice.
H: I think I would, for the normalcy of it, especially by the time I pop out kids. And while it would be difficult to see a son in pain, I think that in the end it is probably the right choice. I don't have a real justification for it, it just feels right.
ER: What would you like to tell couples and future parents who are weighing the options about circumcising their sons?
E: You could circumcise your son in order to ensure he doesn't get teased about his foreskin, but kids always get teased about something, so I don't see this as a good reason. Unless you have a good reason, religious or health-related, I'd say don't bother.
N: This is a fairly personal decision, but if you are worried about your child being disadvantaged in any way, don't. I have lived a perfectly normal and wonderful life with my foreskin intact and I can't comment on what it would be like without it, but I enjoy the way things are and wouldn't change that part of my body for any reason.
H: It is a personal decision based on a lot of factors, so it is not really for me to say. It has not negatively or positively affected my life that greatly, so if you think it is right one way or the other that is the choice you should make.
M: Don't buy into the stupid arguments about cleanliness or whatever else people say to keep up this outdated tradition. A dirty circumcised penis is still a dirty penis, so you're much better off teaching kids about hygiene. Keep the turtleneck on, and be proud!
Check back tomorrow for Part 2 when I ask new and expecting parents about the process of deciding their sons' foreskin futures.
54 comments
I have heard tell that University of Florida football star and Heisman Trophy winner Tim Tebow would be more than happy to circumsize your child…you know, if you’re interested.
Rich
C’mon curtis, don’t be a dick. (sorry)
If you ever have to go to physical therapy and change in the locker room, you will find a seemingly willing library of specimens for investigation over the age of 55.
The locker room at the Champaign Park District indoor tennis facility is a good bet, as well.
coda916
My question: Is “more sensitivity” a good thing or a bad thing?
And sure evolution has given us the foreskin but who needs it with undergarments and pants protecting our peters?
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Matthew
coda916:
My question: Is “more sensitivity” a good thing or a bad thing?
Restate your question as: “Is feeling more pleasure during sex a good thing or a bad thing?” and you might see an answer youself.
And sure evolution has given us the foreskin but who needs it with undergarments and pants protecting our peters?
For those of us who are not Mormon, skinny dipping and sleeping naked are still regular occurrences. Besides, “I wear underwear” is not a very convincing argument for chopping off body parts; it presupposes that the foreskin is there only for protection and nothing else. In reality, a foreskin is a comfortable apartment my penis. He likes it, especially since his close neighbor is an asshole.
coda916
I guess I was thinking in terms of stamina as far as sensitivity is concerned. One would assume the more pleasure one receives the more likely you become a “one-pump-chump.” But perhaps you make up for it in girth so it doesn’t matter…your wife still gets pleasure and it doesn’t take as long. I don’t know…
I hadn’t heard the “comfortable apartment” argument before…I guess I don’t know what I’m missing! I’ve just read from scientists that they presupposed the foreskin’s use for protection from tall grasses and such while walking. That kind of follows the line for swimming too I guess…protection from parasites and whatnot.
I kind of see them like wisdom teeth. Something evolution gave us but that we really have no use for anymore. Like I said, maybe I don’t know what I’m missing…
Restoring Tally
@coda916: Like I said, maybe I don’t know what I’m missing…
I think that sums it up. I was circumcised at birth and I am restoring my foreskin. Mathew above has the right idea. It is much more pleaurable to have a foreskin, even a restored one. The forskin provides a gliding action as the glans moves in and out inside the foreskin. Along with the normal sensitivity of an intact penis, the feeling is very pleasurable and I can do it just as long as I want. I don’t need lube, and my wife never gets sore from extended sessions. :)
Also, the glans and inner foreskin are mucous membranes. That is the same type of tissue as under your eyelids. For infants who were recently circumcised, having their sensitive bits rub against their diaper is very irritating. For boys and men, the glans and inner foreskin remnant keratinizes (develops a calloused layer) and it is less irritating. But, it still bothered me for a long time to have my bare glans rub against my underwear and bedsheets.
Oops. I noticed that the link I posted above is broken. Here is the link to learn more about foreskin restoration. I am very satisfied with my restored foreskin and find it much more pleasurable than when I was circumcised.
STail
My dad elected to get circumcised in his late teens due to locker room peer pressure. He deeply regretted the pain and loss of sensation afterward, and so when I was born, he didn’t allow the hospital to circumsize me. Thank goodness! I love my foreskin!
Tasha
I have to say, I prefer an uncut guy. I am sure there are women who feel both ways about it, but I feel strongly that uncut is the way to stay for men.
sam
<h4 class=“user_name”>coda916-</h4>
to say that the foreskin is only serves a protective purpose is wrong. it is not a numb piece of skin covering the glans when the penis is not in use and completely separate from the rest of it. it is part of the penis: it is a double-walled piece of flesh made up of muscle, veins, skin and mucosa (the stuff your cheeks and lips are made out of), and is covered in tens of thousands of fine-touch sensitive nerves. just as various parts of female genitalia serve both a protective and sexual role, so does the foreskin. to dismiss it as merely protective is silly, because simply looking at the plain facts, which is that the foreskin has a huge amount of sexually sensitive nerve endings, shows the foreskin to serve a sexual function.
it isn’t that intact men are more sensitive, it is that they literally have more to feel. they are in complete possession of the equipment to potentially feel all of the erotic sensations nature intended us to feel. circumcised men only have the glans and the shaft, both of which have nerves that respond much more to pressure, as opposed to the earlier mentioned fine-touch nerves of the foreskin.
i do not want to make it seem like i think circumcised men are doomed to crummy sex, but they are missing out on a whole bunch of awesome nerves (not to mention extra skin so they can get erections without everything going taut). it seems to me that a lot of circumcised men have the attitude of “well it must not be useful in any way because they wouldn’t just cut it off if it was.” the unfortunate fact is that it is part of a male’s sexual organ and is specially suited to receiving pleasure. this is the dirty little secret of this debate: by circumcising infants we are taking future sexual pleasure away from the men they will become. we are altering the sexual organs of babies, oftentimes for no more than the stated reason of “it just feels right” or “i don’t want my son to have an ugly penis (!!!)”. even the most commonly cited medical reasonings behind it add some protection against risks and conditions most men will never face, circumcised or not.
Prankish
I was uncut up to the age of 26 and decided to get circumcised just out of interest and curiosity. I think sex feels much better now because I can feel the ‘out’ stroke much easier and the out stroke feels better always than the in stroke. There is less ‘hyper sensitivity’ but more ‘good sensation’. It is hard to describe exactly. My girlfriend who had not been with a cut guy before also much prefers the feeling and spontaneous oral sex is now possible without worrying if I might smell or should take a shower first. I can always pee straight without always having to retract the foreskin. Cleaning is no longer a seperate specific task every morning in the shower. Everything is better IMO.
My reasons were simply because I find it more of a turn on. Health reasons were of no motivational factor, but they are an extra bonus. I very much realise this on very hot days.
circmom
sam, you are sadly misinformed or disillusioned. There are no muscles in the foreskin. Having performed many a circ in our office, I assure you, no muscle. it is nothing like your cheek or lips. both my boys are circumcized. as long as you care properly for a fresh circumcision, there is no irritation, only a small incision that heals rapidly due to ample blood flow to the area. I prefer a circumcized male… I like to see what I’m getting. No turtlenecks for me. thanks.
Prankish
@circmom, sam can say all he wants about thousands of nerve endings and such, but it is irrelevant. I am one of the few that have been there and done that so to speak, and I know that the foreskin is more of a liability than an asset. Not only do I know this, but on the newsgroups I visit dedicated to adult circ I would say from what I have seen the satisfaction rate post-circ is 99%+.
Pre-circ there is too much sensitivity to properly enjoy sensations where close to orgasm becomes simply too much, and after orgasm is painfully-sensitive. Post-circ there is less sensitivity (in a good way) which is in no way any more ultra-sensitive, however, there is MORE feeling. Both of this, makes it much improved.
Without the frenulum, the fear of tearing from rough sex is gone, which is also much better without that mental turn-off. The zone where the frenulum was is now an added area of pleasure. I also have a very tight circ so the frenulum needed to be removed for the head to remain straight and not bend downward, which looks awful. I also had a scrotal web resection which removes the turkey neck of skin between the bottom of the shaft and scrotum. I have a tight and neat package as a whole now which is a whole lot different to before the surgery. My surgeon takes special consideration to cosmetic outcome and is an MD and does many adult circs, and it is quite difficult to find such a qualified surgeon who does many adult circs. He did do a very good job with a perfect circle circ line, but with that being said even with the best surgeon it still takes much longer for an adult circ to heal vs an infant circ. Adult circs can take a year to take on final appearance where infant circs healed in weeks.
Sarah
I gotta say folks, I’ve had partners both cut and uncut and both are fine in my book. As the female partner, I couldn’t tell a difference and hygiene was never an issue. I suspect technique and experience have more to do with it than if the member has been circumcised or left with foreskin.
I do find it strange that someone called “circmom” would reply with promoting circumcision in her own office and yet she can’t even properly spell circumcision (there is no “z” in it). Then she says her boys are circumcised and that’s what she sexually prefers to see. What? She isn’t looking at her own children sexually, is she?
I have no idea if this woman is crazy or just a troll. But it may be the strangest comment I’ve read on the web in a while, and that’s saying something.
Prankish
^^Why would wanting to pass on a positive experience or opinion about the subject be wrong to choose it for your son if you truly believe it is what is best? Parents choose what is best for their children and circ is just another parenting choice that parents deserve to have without being judged. It doesn’t matter what the reasons are. Why would the reason of thinking it is better from a sexual standpoint be any less valid than say religious millenia old stone age superstitious reasons?
Don Collapso
<span lang=“EN-GB”><span style=“font-family: Times New Roman; color: #000000; font-size: small;”>So quite right - parents choose what’s right for their children, but is having an unnecessary, mutilating operation (so the rest of the world thinks) inflicted on your child ok?<span style=“mso-spacerun: yes;”> </span>It is certainly understandable because generations of Americans have got used to the idea that circumcision is ok, but when they hear what we have to say about it and foreign porn (or foreign GFs) tell you what an asset and a luxury it is to have one, isn’t it time that more of you started challenging this outmoded and barbaric practice?</span></span>
<span lang=“EN-GB”><span style=“font-family: Times New Roman; color: #000000; font-size: small;”>I speak from the heart.<span style=“mso-spacerun: yes;”> </span>It used to be practised in the UK to a limited extent and I was one of the last generation to have to face this mutilation.<span style=“mso-spacerun: yes;”> </span>I never forgave my parents after being made fun of at school and by my first GF.<span style=“mso-spacerun: yes;”> </span>In later life I realised that sex was no longer in any way rewarding and I more or less gave up.<span style=“mso-spacerun: yes;”> </span>My poor scarred stump now has no more sensitivity than a stick of celery - and I resent it. </span></span>
<span lang=“EN-GB”><span style=“font-family: Times New Roman; color: #000000; font-size: small;”>Check out Norm-UK (Google it) if you think I’m some sort of one-off or fruitcake.</span></span>
<span lang=“EN-GB”><span style=“font-family: Times New Roman; color: #000000; font-size: small;”>Then eat your heart out, like so many Americans do when the truth dawns what they’ve been deprived of.</span></span>
Kat
I feel strongly that parents should not circ their boys….every individual should have the right to an intact body and decide for themselves in the future if they would like to have any type of cosmetic procedure. My hubby n son are happily intact:)
Isabella
I live in Australia and I have to say, “intact” is the norm here! I have only met 1 circumcised male, and I went to a co-ed school where these things were the hot topics! I think parents should leave their children’s bodies alone, and let the child decide when they are old enough whether they want to be circumcised or not.
Gillian
I find it pathetic how many people here think that their personal experience is set in stone, and everyone else would respond the same. Take, for example, the guy whining that his natural penis was too sensitive, so he thinks everyone should have their foreskin removed.
Um, does it not occur to you that the VAST majority of men in the world are totally fine with their foreskins and don’t have a problem with the level of sensitivity? Not all men are like you, so let them consider their own personal circumstances, and decide for themselves as adults. Chances are they will decide to keep their whole penis!
There is no excuse for cutting off parts of anybody’s genitals except your own. It’s not healthier, it’s not cleaner, it’s not even more “normal” in the US now, since circ rates have dropped below half. All the scare-stories told about “I knew a guy who knew a guy who had to be circumcised as an adult and it was terrbile…” - just look outisde your own country and you’ll see what a load of BS this is - men in Europe and the Orient aren’t dropping dead from foreskin-related illnesses, are they? So it can’t be all that bad, can it?!
Honestly, the circumcised penis is not attractive at all - the natural penis is sleek and beautiful. It has sensitive, delicate folds like the female genitalia (but it’s cleaner!). Why is it so scary for people to recognise our similarity even in this most intimate area?!
The foreskin deserves some love - it’s wonderful! No-one should take away another person’s right to their body!
Gillian —
As a Jew, I take exception to your comment and believe it to be latently anti-semitic. It’s a biblical Jewish mandate to have male babies circumsized, and an extremely important ritual.
I happen to be comfortable in my skin (or lack thereof) and I don’t honestly appreciate the idea that anyone would somehow find a penis to be unattractive because of a ritual that is considered to be holy by many people across the world.
That said, I believe that foreskin or not, it’s people that make the penis beautiful and not the actual penis itself. Same thing with a vagina.
Your assessment is judgmental and superficial, on the whole.
OutStroke
Yeah cause without religious tradition, the world is judgmental and superficial. She isn’t a jew so she can think what she wants. Gillian, just don’t move to Isreal. Things can get a lot uglier than message board back-and-forths when you fudge with religious tradtion in someplaces.
Sensitivity can be a problem. I keep rubbing mine, to try to numb it. So far no luck.
Outstroke
Wel, Rob, one things for sure, guys like you and me just don’t go down easily.
the giggler
hehehehe, somebody said “penis”!
Anti-semite. =)
I think it’s important to consult scripture in these matters.
If my memory serves I believe that somewhere in Leviticus Moses addresses Yahweh with the following: “Lemme get this straight. You want us to cut the ends of our dicks off?!”
Yeah, but it was funnier in the original Hebrew.
Brad
I believe that men should have the right to chose for themselves weather to get cut or not. I am personally restoring my foreskin, due to not having the choice myself. I’m Australian and I hope that someday the choice by parents is taken away by making Infant circumcision illegal. I look forward to a clean restored foreskin in the near future.
Joseph4GI
To discuss circumcision as a parent’s “choice” is based on a dubious premise: that there was ever a “choice” to make to begin with.
Consider this: When a doctor performs the wrong surgery on a patient, he can be sued for malpractice.
When a doctor charges money to perform a surgery that is not medically indicated in a non-consenting individual, he is committing medical fraud, and if the patient gets a hold that he has been conned, he can take his doctor to court.
So, I think it needs to be established, what is the medical indication for circumcision in healthy, non-consenting individuals? Without a medical indication, can medical practitioners even be performing circumcisions in healthy newborns, let alone be giving parents any kind of “choice?”
If circumcision is not medically necessary in a healthy, non-consenting individual, isn’t a doctor engaging in charlatanism in even presenting parents with this “choice” to begin with?
Other issues begin to come into play, I see that the issue of “religion” has already presented itself. But we must ask ourselves one question; is a doctor’s duty to medicine, or to religious blood rites? If a doctor is obliged to perform a circumcision on a boy because it’s a parent’s “religious conviction,” then why can’t he perform a similar procedure in a girl? (The removal of the clitoral hood in baby girls is practiced in parts of Africa, and all over Indonesia and Malaysia.)
Before we get into the debate of “which is worse,” I’d like to remind readers; Either a non-medical surgical procedure is justifiable because it’s “a parent’s choice,” or a parent’s “religious freedom,” or it is not.
How “severe” one procedure is over the other is a matter of opinion. And when we argue that one form of circumcision is “mutilation,” and the other is not, we are merely saying that parents that circumcise their girls love their children less than parents that circumcise their boys. They BOTH circumcise their children with the same reasoning; “It’s my choice,” “it’s my religion,” “it is what is accepted in my society.” When we move the conversation to opinions of what is “worse,” or “mutilation, the above arguments of “religious freedom,” “parental choice” etc. fly out the window.
So those are the questions fellas; if there wasn’t medical indication to begin with, did parents ever really have a “choice?
If doctors are obliged to perform un-necessary procedures based on “parental choice,” “societal norm,” and/or “religious freedom,” why is this limited to male circumcision and male circumcision only?
Whan a doctor is profiting from surgery that is not medically indicated, when a doctor is getting away with medical fraud, when the abuse of trust is happening of the parents, and the abuse of the healthy, non-consenting child who cannot fend for himself is happening, when a wrong is being committed, does it even matter how “severe” the procedure is? Does it even matter whether or not a child can remember? Does it matter that sexuality is affected one way or the other? Or are those simply red-herrings distracting from the conversation?
One final question to put things into perspective; If a man has his sexual way with a girl in a coma, is what he did justified because “she can’t remember?” Or was the act still wrong and abusive?
Similarly, even though most men can’t remember, and they can’t feel a difference, is the fact that doctors are profiting from taking advantage of their defenslessness as children, really justified?
A note about the anti-Semite card; let’s remember that in this country, only about 3% of circumcisions that happen are Jewish ones. The rest are secular. Not to mention the fact that Iranians and the Palestinians circumcise as well. To be against circumcision is not anymore “anti-Semite” than being against female circumcision is “anti-African.” I see the circumcision of healthy, non-consenting minors as a violation of basic human rights, no matter who is doing it, and no matter what pretexts.
May American phycisians one day be held to their own standard, and may the circumcision of boys be seen as the same violation of principle as the circumcision of girls.
Shalom alechem, As-salamu Alaykum, and god bless.
Morgan Stukes
For circumcised guys who want to regain the sensitivty they lost against their will, you can look up foreskin restoration.
Furthermore, foregen is using regenerative medicine to regenerate what we lost to circumcision which are all the sensitive zones of the penis including the frenulum (male g-spot), ridged band which has many nerve endings, 20,000 lost nerve endings, and the foreskin. You can find out more at foregen.org
Rock
To Seth - Quit playing the anit-Semite card. It’s bullshit. I am jewish and circumcision is clearly genital mutilation. It’s also OK in the Bilbe to kill your kid if he talks back to you. Do you believe in that also?
Memo to all circed men: Start restoring your foreskins. I have done it, and the pleasure is 10 times greater.
@Rock —
I used an emoticon =) to avoid people like you FREAKING OUT. My point was simply to illustrate that beauty is found in the person, not in the penis.
And I am glad your orgasms are feeling so good these days, and that you felt proud enough about them to share that anonymously on a website. It’s like, welcome to the internet, right!?
mom
How being against circumcision of ANY baby (including protecting Jewish babies) is being anti-semite? I don’t see it. sorry.
Protecting Jewish babies or ANY baby from genital mutilation is not anti-semite. Protecting babies from genital mutilation is an act of humanity. All babies have the right to bodily integrity.
@mom —
Yes, I know. I actually smiley-face-emoticonned that particular post to infer that I was JOKING about ANYONE being anti-semitic. It was a SARCASTIC remark to make sure that people knew that I WASN’T INFERRING racial prejudice.
Are we good there?
Good.
But that said, for the same reasons that being pro-choice does not infer being PRO-abortion, being pro-circumsion for religious and cultural reasons, within the confines of one’s OWN household, does not infer being PRO-genital mutilation.
Nothing of the sort.
Please do not try to step on a high horse and pretend that you are an authority on what defines genital mutilation, because if you are simply comparing this and this, you are WAY WAY off base. And I take exception to it as a circumsized male — with parents who were simply trying to honor tradition, culture, and yes, their relationship with G-d.
I think that those who have suffered through the latter link would take exception as well.
If you are against circumsion, great! I can certainly support and respect your feelings about that. As a Jew who may have a child with a penis one day, I am pretty well torn on the issue, but tend to lean towards leaving my little future Elijah’s johnson alone. But that’s for me and my partner to decide. And it’s no one else’s business.
To lash out at anyone, and to accuse them of being genital mutilators, however, for respecting circumcision as something sacred to the Jews — and it IS VERY SACRED — or as something that one does to glorify G-d, well, I’d say you likely need a lesson in sensitivity training about differences in human cultures.
Part of that whole thing — being respectful of cultures other than our own — is learning to simply agree that while it’s not something that we might choose for ourselves, it’s something that we can understand to be important to others.
If the issue was the REMOVAL of the actual HEAD of the PENIS, well, we’d be having a different discussion. But this is not that. This is circumcision, which modifies the outer portion of our male genitalia, and does not render it useless, and nothing of the sort. I’m good to go.
It might decrease sensitivity, but hey — being a line cook pretty much destroys your fingertip’s sensitivity as well.
Unless of course, the Mohel had one too many glasses of Manischewitz before the bris — then it ain’t too pretty!
=)
SMILEY FACE! SMILEY FACE! JOKE ALERT! SARCASM ALERT!!!! THE LAST SENTENCE WAS SARCASM!!!! WOAH!!!
TD
@circmom:
No muscle in the prepuce? I find it hard to believe you work in an office that performs circs and you are ignorant of genital anatomy. Look up “preputial sphincter” and “dartos fascia”. The prepuce in fact does contain muscle, blood vessels, about 20,000 Meissners corpuscles (fine touch nerve receptors), sebaceous glands and antiviral Langerhans cells (that protect against STDs/HIV).
@coda916:
It’s not that it’s just “more” sensation, it’s different sensation. Imagine driving a car without an accelerator pedal to control your velocity. Men who say things like, “if I had any more sensation, I’d have a heart attack…” could just as accurately be saying, “I’m fine seeing in black and white - if I were able to see in color I’d go crazy…” (when in fact they’ve never seen color and have no concept of what it’s like. The few anecdotal reports of guys being happy with their adult circumcisions are in the extreme minority, and frequently the key issue is lost in the argument: they decided. Not a parent, not a doctor. The choice was theirs, as it should be for all human beings.
Devin Savage DMD
As a dentist, I see the normal penis as a mouth without teeth. I can tell you that they are very similar. What would happen to your ability to enjoy food if your lips and cheeks were removed so you would be cleaner, or you would fit someone else’s idea of what is cute or acceptable? The normal penis has a “tongue” (the glans) “cheeks” (the foreskin proper) and “lips” (the riged band). It also has a lingual frenum known as the frenulum. The frenulum is the g-spot of the penis, and rarely survives circumcision. It is amazing how similar the mouth and normal penis are. Both the tongue and the glans are sensory organs, meant to be moist and very sensitive. The tongue- we all know what it is sensitive to, the glans and inside of the foreskin are supposed to be sensitive to touch and convey the pleasurable sensations to the brain. Circumcision dulls sensation and cuts the penis down to its most basic function, an insemination device. It should absolutely be illegal to perform this operation on anyone under 18, and should only be performed when the patient is adequately informed of the consequences of removing this body part. They (not their parents or guardian) should be able to read, understand and sign a consent form. We all know an infant cannot do that.
Sincerely,
Dr. Devin Savage
vicki
I think Curtis is just pissed that some guys aren’t w/o their pleasure turtle neck lol! And that one guy in the interview saying he would circ…WTF? he had less negative experiences and more positive than the rest and would still mutilate his kid? I think he was hiding something and has some internal issues going on!
I would love an intact partner! I hate the use of the word uncircumcised! it makes it seem like mutilation is normal. People are not unlabotamized women are not unmastectomized men are not uncircumcised the term is intact! THEY HAVE THEIR PENIS circumcised men are missing part of their penis! That is not normal!
Lippy Girl
Coda196 Says “One would assume the more pleasure one receives the more likely you become a “one-pump-chump.“
Coda, this is one of the most pervasive myths about foreskin - in fact the effect of having a whole penis is the exact opposite to what you presume. The foreskin adds multi dimensional sensation and improves control of orgasm - its nerves plays a role in sending feedback to the brain which helps a man to maintain pleasure for longer. It also stimulates a woman in much the same way as the ribs on a ‘for her pleasure condom’. So it’s an all round good thing sensitivity wise. Circumcised men have less control of their orgasms - they may be either too quick or more commonly difficult to achieve. Any man who thinks a woman likes a man to pound on and on with gritted teeth trying to get his orgasm needs to wise up! Sex is about finesse and circumcised sex has much less of it. Sorry to have to say this, but it’s time the truth was told about this horrible surgery.
As for Seth Fein and his idea we must support his religious need to cut (and never call it mutilation) how does he feel about the fact that female circumcision (type Ia or IV) is obligatory in Shafi’i Islam?
It’s a very similar thing, and parents who do it both believe it is a religious obligation (it was supported by the Prophet) and that in reducing retention of urine and bacteria under her skin will improve her sexual health.
Ring any bells!?
In Indonesia this cut is literally done with scissors - they snip off the tip of her hood while she screams…
In case anyone is wondering her screams sound just like a little boys screams, her blood looks just like his blood, her fear like his fear). Seth it’s time you got real about the inacceptability of hurting children’s sexual parts. It doesn’t become ok for you to do it just because you have white skin and a college education.
I really suggest you read up on female circumcision. Start with Fuambai Ahmadu’s writings http://www.thepatrioticvanguard.com/article.php3?id_article=2434
and also read this about Indonesia
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/20/magazine/20circumcision-t.html?_r=1
and this which is a blog where Singaporean mothers discuss cutting their baby daughters
http://www.mummysg.com/forums/f40/have-you-sunat-your-girls-29826/
Please review your position. Forced or coerced genital cutting is wrong. And even the tiniest baby does remember it - in fact it does more nerve harm the earlier you do it - yet another reason for it to be an adult choice:
http://www.wellcome.ac.uk/News/2009/Features/WTX054083.htm
xakana
My husband is happy with his circumcision. He has no interest in restoration. I’m happy with his circumcision (I like body modification) and feel no need to ask him to get restored.
We will NOT circumcise our sons. I will leave any pediatrician that suggests it and hurt anyone if they try. Our sons will make that decision for themselves.
Spontaneous oral? Ew. Not happening. My husband is meticulous in keeping clean and he’s still not getting oral without washing it first. It’s not happening. The only other guy I was with had an even tighter circ and same thing. Circumcision doesn’t make anything cleaner, sorry. The penis needs to be washed regardless of foreskin status.
If my husband wants to restore, I’d fully support him. And we’d look into Foregen to actually restore his foreskin, not just stretch out what’s already there.
And I don’t care what an adult’s religion is, children’s religious choice should be protected. I’m not my parents’ religion and I’d be FURIOUS if I’d been physically altered in some barbaric ritual, rather than trusted to make my own decision about my religion. What’s more, many jews no longer circumcise, it’s never been supported in Christianity (in fact, it’s outright against the New Testament) and it’s not a tennant in Islam, but a tradition, that goes against the Koran’s declaration that man’s body was made perfect. Since those are the only religions that supposedly support circumcision, I don’t feel the need to list all the Asian religions that think Westerners are crazy or the pagan religions that do no harm and find the practice ghastly.
No one’s sexual preferences have any place being forced upon a child. That’s just sick. It’s one thing to think it protects against disease (refuted studies) or even the idiocy of thinking it’s cleaner (hygeine is hygeine and genitals get dirty, deal with it), but sexual preference and an adult’s religion are not for infants (in America, at least, where we have laws protecting relgious choice).
I think this was a great article, btw. It’s interseting that the guy with no problems is the one who would circumcise. And to the one with a tight foreskin—have you looked into steroidal creams? They’re suppoed to help resolve phimosis (tight foreskin) without surgery.
Auh
I would like this link to be passed on to ‘E’
http://www.cirp.org/library/treatment/phimosis/
In countries where circ is not the norm there are better treatments for phimosis than total removal of the foreskin. I would highly recommend talking to your doctor about steriod creams or gentle stretching/tugging methods. That way you can keep the beneficial prepuce and achieve full retraction (if that is what you desire). HTH
living with 3 4skins
Gotta chime in…married to a Canadian, where they do not circ. So when I had 2 boys I didn’t get them cut, simply because hubbys fam. has a history of good 4skins. So glad I didn’t, now that I know that 100 boys die every year from this surgery. My boys have never been teased about their skins, they simply are not in a position where anyone but their doc is looking at it. And yes, they play 3 sports. My hubby has, from what I have heard, a fab foreskin. Yes he is a yeast carrier, but that could happen in a cut guy too, I think, and besides I am immune. I don’t know what a non cut guy looks like, I can’t imagine, but it must be weird. My sons are 12 and 14 and have never had issues. No one ever has to touch theirs, or clean it. Are they just good? Who knows. I don’t go around asking. BTW the stats in the article are dead wrong, only 33% of babies in the US were cut the last year it was tallied. (09?)
@LippyGirl aka Anonymous Internet Wuss posting on Champaign-Urbana magazine from G-d knows where —
Again — personally, I am against circumcision. I would not choose it for myself had I the opportunity, and will not inflict that upon my son, should I have one.
But the fact of the matter remains simple: you are only seeing this from YOUR perspective. You are likely NOT Jewish. That’s OK. But even if you are, you and others are able to have different points of view without taking alarmist and extremist approachs to every issue, especially when they pertain to body parts that you do not possess.
Had you actually READ my comments, you’d have seen that I am fairly conciliatory about this matter. But you didn’t. You took an alarmist and reactionary point of view about that point as well.
And G-d knows why you are posting anonymously on hyper-local magazines about the fate of tips of penis’ that you will never see.
Quite the crusade there. Odd, really…
And as such, I can not engage you further.
I am with you, though. No circumcision. I think it’s bad, too.
Good?
Audrey
Prankish clearly has a fetish. Ugh. Nobody wants to hear about your picture-perfect scar, man.
Would I listen to info from that kind of person when it comes to decisions about my children? No effing way.
Audrey
For anyone interested in learning more about circumcision from a Jewish perspective, I found this documentary VERY enlightening!!
http://www.cutthefilm.com/Cut_Website/The_Film.html
@Audrey —
Thank you for posting that link. Even from the trailer, I think you can see that it’s an issue that is heavy, and holds a lot of tradition vs. pragmatism weighing in the balance.
And that was my only real point: it’s not so cut and dried.
ZING!
another anon
Seth,
Come on…
“@LippyGirl aka Anonymous Internet Wuss posting on Champaign-Urbana magazine from G-d knows where — “
why offer anonymous posting if it’s something you are going to criticize? Sure, some people may take advantage of this feature and make inappropriate comments but this can still be done by creating an account as well. I’m digressing though. I’ve taken a lot of thought into whether I would have my child circumcised but I’ll join the train and say that I find the practice disturbing especially female circumcision which thank G-d is not a practice of our culture. I don’t remember my circumcision but I presume it was quite painful. There are many things that I find wrong in religion or even traditions and this would be one of them.—-Seth, this is not targeted at you.
;)
What’s more disturbing is how many or at least friends and I when growing up didn’t know what circumcision was. We made fun of kids who were not circumcised. It’s embarrassing but we thought we were natural or normal and others just weird. These kids were different from us and penis jokes or harassment can be common among foolishly uneducated children. My grandfather opted for circumcision after joining the Marines. This came up in a similar conversation on sexual education with family or actually, my grandmother. Apparently he experienced the same thing. He felt he was the odd one or maybe others found him to be the odd one. This was his choice but it’s unfortunate he made this choice to follow the norm but this is a delicate situation and I can’t say how I would have felt if uncircumcised and different from others.
@AnotherAnon —
Fair enough, point taken. But just because the site offers Anonymous Commenting, that doesn’t meant that I have to respect it. ESPECIALLY when you are talking about sensitive things, like my penis.
ZING!
Anyhow, I realize that this isn’t targeted AT ME, and I am not sure that I ever made a case that it was? That said, it’s definitely targeted at JEWS to a degree, in that it’s a biblical and cultural mandate for parents to circumsize their sons.
You’ll forgive me for sticking up for my fellow Jews here, as I do not feel mutilated, and I think that suggesting that I am is short-sighted and weak.
So, while I understand the notion of commenting anonymously, especially to discuss matters like this, it also feels a little degrading to sit back and let others call my parents mutliators anonymously, you know?
I whole-heartedly agree with the right to comment anonymously, but that doesn’t mean that I always have to respect when it’s done.
In the same regard, I feel like prostitution should be fully legal as well, but I can’t say that I respect every aspect of it or its functions.
OK. I need to stop typing about my junk and others’ junk and the future of junks’ worldwide on this website.
NM.
socal
i dont know why americans and jews are so obsessed with circumcising kids
and they promote circumcision with these biased “studies” (that have been debunked like a billion times), circumcision does not do anything at all but remove the protective layer of skin and leave a brown ring/scar and a dry penis head on the poor kid
and “uncut”? wtf, is everyone with arms called “unamputated”. people in this country are fucking retarded. circumcision is wrong and disgusting IMO. foreskin is meant to be there and plus, it’s more attractive and soft for sex
steven myrick
LippyGirl is a smart sexually sophisticated British young woman who has thought deeply about how humans think about their genitalia. She is walking a trail blazed by the great American woman Betty Dodson.
Commenters who use what appears to be a real name deserve somewhat more respect. This does not mean that comments should be dismissed merely because they are signed Anonymous.
#48 made the following very telling remarks: “What’s more disturbing is how many or at least friends and I when growing up didn’t know what circumcision was. We made fun of kids who were not circumcised. It’s embarrassing but we thought we were natural or normal and others just weird. These kids were different from us and penis jokes or harassment can be common among foolishly uneducated children.”
That does not describe my youth, but I lived in daily fear that of being treated in that fashion. But if there is one thing I understand, it is the smug conformist beast that lurks in the minds of so many otherwise stalwart Americans. This above all: no Weird Pointed Dicks.
I grew up in the American heartland, and lived 10 years in inner city Chicago. I have worked in foundries, forge shops, and steel mills, and taught college business classes. I played football and basketball in high school. I was not teased about having an AntEater after second grade, because I learned to hide it carefully. I can assure you all that I never heard a single dirty wisecrack about foreskin and circ, because the boys around me knew nothing about those subjects. If they would have seen my foreskin, they would have had an overwhelming impression that my Dick was Weird, and they would have let me know that in no uncertain terms. To be a white middle class uncircumcised baby boomer was to belong to a despised and misunderstood sexual minority.
Seth Fein, I maintain that I know more than you do about what it means to grow up feeling that one’s genitalia are not up to par. Like it or not, the American AntEater is making a comeback, not only because more and more women of your generation not only find circumcision gross, but are also coming to prefer sexually that johnson have all the moving parts Mother Nature intended him to have. Never forget that many young women have trouble enjoying sex. The reasons for that are varied. But women are eager to believe that a major reason for that is something that they can blame on their in-laws, namely that boyfriend is circed. Belief here is more compelling than reality.
I have a difficult time believing that when parents consider circumcising their baby boy (or not) that they are thinking about the potential sexual pleasure of his potential female partner in adulthood.
Of the couples I spoke with for this related article, potential teasing or judgment by both males and females were reasons for circumcision.
Pro- or anti-circ, by the time someone interacts with someone else’s penis, odd are the decision was made for that individual based on another individual’s (or set of individuals’) beliefs. Whether cultural, religious or otherwise, parents are making the decision to leave body parts intact or cut them off. Today, it seems like some folks don’t even consider that another option exists, and assume circumcision is the norm for baby boys, despite research published by our most highly esteemed leaders in pediatric medicine.
If health reasons are parents’ main concern, we now know circumcision is. not. necessary. I’m happy to see this article is still receiving comments almost a year after it was posted. I hope the Foreskin Stories created as much discussion for others as it has here and in my conversations with friends and strangers alike!
John
@Gillian
“I find it pathetic how many people here think that their personal experience is set in stone, and everyone else would respond the same…”
Perhaps but real life experience counts for more than speculation.
“There is no excuse for cutting off parts of anybody’s genitals except your own. It’s not healthier, it’s not cleaner, ..
Whether or not it is cleaner will depend on how much effort is used to clean. It is definitely healthier. It offers high protection against HIV even when you are drunk and careless, protects babies from painful UTIs that cause kidney damage in 50% of cases and even protect female partners from cervical cancer.
“Honestly, the circumcised penis is not attractive at all - the natural penis is sleek and beautiful.”
Some might think anteaters are attractive but many disagree. Surveys and pornography support this.
John
@Emaa
You emphasise so much that it is not necessary. That is true if you consider it from AAP’s perspective and use a ‘no immediate medical benefit to the child’ criterion. You can say circumcision is not necessary or that vaccination is not necessary based on that criterion. However in both cases it is false if considered from the protection from disease afforded by circumcision (and vaccination). A very safe procedure that offers a lifetime of potential benefit is necessary.
Most Recent Culture Comments
@Jason: You’re right about that. I get groceries at Schnucks (they carry what I buy, which I can’t say of any other single grocery store in town), and if they have a beer I’m in the market for it’s usually a quarter or two cheaper per 6-…
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Why wait ‘til 3 pm?
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High-profile whining. AKA Lobbying.
it’s quite choice. looking forward to seeing how it and its patronage grow and develop over the course of the year. could be a neat little ecosystem.
“It was at this point, before he started his business, that working with city employees should’ve raised red flags…” But they didn’t because: 1) The City Clerk’s office originally mis-interpreted the rules, or are indeed re-interpreting them. 2) Champaign’s brick-n-mortar merchants hadn’t yet started whining about The Crave Truck.
Super cool! Excellent track, Excellent band.
Looking forward to trying this place!
I’m in the middle (or the beginning or end, depending on how you look at it) of re-reading Slaughterhouse Five. What a great companion column.
Get yours early. The Rave’s CD will be available at Exile and at The C-U Flea on Saturday. C-U Flea details here: http://www.smilepolitely.com/news/sp_radio_podcast_c-u_flea_arrives/
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Oh nice! I’d totally vote for Matt Campbell!
“Smile Politely sports writer announces candidacy for city government.”
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The Alan Partridge lookalike on the right in the first small photo has nothing to condescend to anyone about. AH HA!
Snell and the little Hitlers of the neighborhood association need to chill out. Legitimate businesses should have the freedom to exist without having to endure the slings and arrows of ignorant and misguided opposition.
represent, Matt.
Yeah, I’d agree that Transporter Room 3 is the worst house venue I’ve ever seen.
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The Alan Partridge lookalike on the right in the first small photo has nothing to condescend to anyone about. AH HA!