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UPDATED: Jimmy John is a big man.  With the photos to prove it.

Oh, were you expecting a Weiner story? 

No, for now tales of Jimmy John's violent exploits are limited to using his (tax-dwindled) funds to live out fantasies of stalking, predation, and slaughter in exotic locales.

Jimmy, I'll finance your next trip if you think you're man enough to do it bare-handed.

 

 

p.s. Your sandwiches are shit.

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An update based on my thoughts in communicating with a few commenters:

Thank you to all who have read, forwarded, and provided insightful commentary or information-and this would include an invitation to and preemptive thanks for anyone who can provide a legitimate defense beyond, "Who cares?"  I think it's immediately apparent that a lot of people care.

Also, a special tip of the hat to Jonathon Childers, who alerted SP to these photos.

I fully appreciate skepticism and the withholding of support for the targeting and criticism of another human until reason and sense dictate otherwise.  I believe the photos do dictate such responses, though context and additional information are always warranted.

I could have written a longer, investigative piece, and tied in trophy hunting with the ills of our civilization, but I chose not to.  Positive and negative consequences follow.  One of the positives is that, in deferring from framing the discussion analytically, readers have felt inclined to weigh in on important subjects like economic models, animal cruelty, debased human behavior abroad and on-site (if I want to feel apocalyptic I go read internet comment threads), and the need to find constructive solutions.

I believe we're collectively culpable, and pointing out the varying degrees of hypocrisy in order to maintain the status quo is a fool's errand at best and slyly evil at worst.  After all, you may eat tofu harvested from mono-crop fields and ride your bike to work on the streets — thus mitigating your footprint, but still acting as an accessory to a few of the prongs of civilization that have destroyed animal habitat - the primary cause of species decline in the first world.  Such complicity is, in fact, real.  However, I don't think this relative complicity should prevent one from speaking out about human behavior — though that is a recurring theme in the comments, and surely will be pushed by Jimmy John's PR department.  Collective culpability and relative hypocrisy do not mean that any behavior is sanctioned, or that we are incapable of making value judgements on grossly immoral acts.

I eat meat. I don't have a moral problem with that (partially because I firmly believe in the rightness of big predators like leopards and wolves). But I eat more than I should, and I'm not always careful about where it comes from. I do have a problem with that. If these pictures lead to greater discussion of how humans fit in to the larger landscape, I will be happy.

Best.

------

 

Saturday June 11, 2011, 3:10 AM

I wonder if some people have looked around lately. "Tabloid journalism" has lost any sense of meaning or proportion. Call this whatever you like, but I'm willing to go on record here because I think these photos represent a piece of humanity which is a danger to civilization.

It was not the man's physical girth that I was referring to in the title, but rather the aggrandized sense of his self-importance. This is not charismatic confidence displayed among the bounty that he had the drive to create and the fortune to be born into (that is, simply by being born into this abundant and elegant existence), but a twisted conception of his place and role in the world.

Oh, and there was A. Weiner joke in there.

A title referencing "manhood" would have been more accurate of my intentions. I wasn't even considering his weight, a topic which, although it lends itself to crude anonymous comments, isn't entirely removed from the purview of the discussion—both of these being reasons why the subject would have been broached regardless of an ambiguous title remarking on size.

Full disclosure, along with a referral to the discussion of relative culpability above:

I have the remains of a few species in my home. One of which I killed and the rest I acquired in non-commercial transactions. On the wall is a fair sized muskey that I reeled in when I was 8. I have no overriding moral qualms with hunting, eating, or otherwise benefitting from animals, but once we have brought these animals within the reach of civilization, we have a responsibility to care for their welfare. At the very least as species, and often on the individual level as well. If nothing else, this fish reminds me that I have no further need for hollow trophies.

To anyone that would argue that avoiding Jimmy John's Gourmet Sandwiches actually hurts the *smaller* people—you're correct. But I would respond that:

 

  1. Without substantive reason, I don't have to care about the economic well-being of those who willingly got into business with Jimmy John. This is, at least in part, a freewheeling, occasionally carnivorous system where both ethical and logistical choices daily determine who succeeds and who fails. And I'm ok with that. I better be as that's the reality of the earthly world that I'm extolling.
  2. If you're a franchisee who has little notion of the victor to whom you are sending the spoils, I can understand that, If I'm somewhat disappointed by it. Ignorance is, in my opinion, substantive reason to give one pause in taking actions against these people. I didn't know until a few days ago, which is an indictment all around. Could a franchisee stand up and say that he or she thinks this behavior should not be part of human activity without fear of reprisal? If so, then a modicum of respect all around, and cheers for giving us that information to use when we choose how to eat.

 

If I so choose, and often even when I do not, I can find daily outpourings from a different tribe, all saying that I am, along with my beliefs, a danger to civilization. If that is the way they feel, or even and especially if they are cynically manipulating others to actually feel it, then I have no choice but to believe the reciprocal may be true. I think it likely.

Where does that leave us?

 

 

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Monday June 13, 2011, 2:31 PM


I'm hard pressed to find an occasion when I was ever convinced by the reasoning, "We must kill them in order to save them."

Some will argue that big game hunting finances greater conservation efforts, and when properly managed, can lead to an increase in the population of threatened species. A few people certainly are spending big bucks to kill them. Of course, you could drop a quarter of a million to simply save them, but that's less fun.

Still, I can appreciate a reasoned defense on this issue (if I disagree with the underlying assumptions) as I am a supporter of hunting and fishing under certain circumstances. Geese and deer are (over)populous across a range of habitats as our land use practices have not been inimical to their species.

The same cannot be said for elephants, leopards and bears. That the bear population may be healthy on one island in Alaska does not make me feel differently. Jimmy John has chosen to kill an animal that is clinging to what little habitat remains for it. If the overall deer population was similarly threatened, I would reevaluate as necessary.

I think it is all the more important for people who support hunting and fishing, as I do, to step up and condemn this kind of hunting.

In America, we hold a few propositions to be self-evident, though that does not mean they should be without rational basis. I would include in this list some that are self-evidently untrue:

  1. that economic development at any cost is worth it, and
  2. that glorifying the killing of threatened animals could be a net benefit to the environment.

Also, even if the above were true, without significant evidence, I would not trust those handling the permitting and execution of these "conservation" projects. I have some familiarity with who recently staffed the Alaska Department of Fish and Game, and I do not believe they were unbiased by their other attachments, interests, and careers. I know less about Botswana, but I would again ask for transparency and clear evidence from this African nation that the dollar signs are not impeding the overall conservation effort, and that corruption has not breached the animal-killing industry.

I make no attempt to justify hypocrisy.  I accept my own level of culpability in human impact to the landscape and its creatures.  But I refuse the implication that, because we are all complicit at one level or another, it becomes impossible for us to speak out against any wrongdoing.
 

This is where I've chosen to draw the line.  Others on either side, PETA-members or big-game trophy hunters, may disagree.  You may disagree.  But I firmly stand by my ability to draw that line, and I believe in the basis by which I do so.

 

178 comments

Jason Brown avatar featured_post

Jason Brown

#1

<Sarcasm> It takes a big, tough dude to slaughter an animal from dozens of yards away with a high-power rifle before jumping back into an air-conditioned land yacht.
 
If only there were some way for me to validate my own manhood like Double-J. I long for the days when paying my bills and not being an asshole to other people was enough to make me a good person. </sarcasm>

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A.B. Koontz

#2

I don’t know what makes me feel more ill: his photos or his sandwiches

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Dana

#3

Ugh. So glad I do not spend any money at his business.

Rob McColley avatar featured_post

Rob McColley

#4

Hey wow, he could have killed Bambi’s mom right here in Champaign County. But he went halfway across the world to kill Dumbo’s mom instead.
 
Sibling rivalry, I guess.

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Jason Pankoke

#5

Ugh. He could have saved a lot of time and travel miles and simply shot daggers into the jackass in the mirror.

Rob McColley avatar featured_post

Rob McColley

#6

Jackasses are lean beasts of burden. The man (?) in the pictures looks more like a hippo.
 
No, scratch that. Hippos are leaner than that, really. 
 
 
 
 
 
I mean WOW that’s a bulbous waistline! 

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boogerface

#7

Big Deal.  Who the hell cares if he killed an elephant and a leopard. You lib***** hate the republicans anyway, so he is doing you a favor by killing their logo.  Why dob’t you idiots start worrying about things that really matter….like giving away money to people that don’t deserve it.  I hope he brings the meat back and makes a new sandwich with it…..  

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Andy

#8

Please don’t use the word “retard” as an insult.
It shows very little class. I know many people who live with cognifive disabilites, and they deserve to be treated with the same respect as anyone else.

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Justin Hedrick

#9

come on, i’m sure he was kiling the elephant so it wouldn’t devistate the local’s sugar cane crop . . . 

and that leopard was going to eat their young!

Rob McColley avatar featured_post

Rob McColley

#10

I wonder how many PR people are currently in lock down. Two huge crises within one year ... I kinda feel bad for them.
 
Killing wild animals is NOT popular with conservatives, especially the those in the Rocky Mountain states and southwest. If it’s for food, etc. that’s one thing, but from the sun roof of a Landrover ...
 
I predict this story will cause more problems for JJ  than the Taxes Griping.

Jason Brown avatar featured_post

Jason Brown

#11

@Rob - and I predict that he won’t care a bit about it, because at the end of the day he’ll still be filthy rich and driving a light blue Ferrari (which I have a photo of) in Central Illinois, as if to say “fzck you” to anyone without a spare quarter of a million dollars.
 
But heaven forbid he have to pay an extra couple of pennies in taxes, amiright?

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Pete

#12

Wow! Just look at the size of that…...man! I’m shocked to see such a grossly overweight man. Another example of what’s wrong with too much success! Sadly enough, he’ll die of a massive heart attack.
And he won’t be able to take his Ferrari with him! Tragic…...

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anon 2

#13

Okay, I get it. He’s fat. I’m sure I’ve read on here at some point where the editors didn’t like people making fun of other people’s physical characteristics. And you don’t like his sandwiches. They’re terrible, that’s probably why he is having so much success and able to go on a safari like this. And you don’t like hunting for sport. Did the author eat that fish that’s mounted on the wall behind him in his editor profile? I assume not since it’s mounted. I also assume he used a fishing pole of some sort too since he’s probably not man enough to catch it bare-handed. From what I hear about JJ, he can be kind of a jerk, but gimme a break with the immature comments about his weight and successful sandwich business.

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Me

#14

Is it illegal to kill these animals in the country where he killed them? Are they endangered? Or are you bothered just by the fact that he killed them?

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Johnny Jims

#15

What a dick. Make it a real fight you POS. Strip down and chase either creature with a knife and see how that picture turns out.

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YNOD

#16

This is local-tabloid journalism.  I’ve also heard and read tales of Jimmy John’s doucheness, but posting this (and some of the ensuing comments) just comes across as tired and easy.  <br>  Sure, this is a representation of obnoxious American bravado, but find something with more substance to attack the guy about. <br>
Oh, and Jason has PHOTO PROOF that JJ drives AN EXPENSIVE CAR.  Please don’t spare us that breaking news!!

Mark Laughlin avatar featured_post

Mark Laughlin

#17

The picture of him posing with the leopard is disgusting. 
As much as I like his sandwiches, I’m going to consider not eating at his restaurants any more.  

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YNOD

#18

HTML fail :/  But still.

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jojoChambana

#19

Well, if he’s like Ted Nugent and eats everything he kills it would explain a lot.
I’m talkin’ bout the poundage people.

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rollemup

#20

<span style=“font-family: “Arial”,“sans-serif”; color: #403152; font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: ‘Times New Roman’; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-bidi; mso-themecolor: accent4; mso-themeshade: 128;”>Seek first to understand, then to be understood. Did you know there are actual rules and guidelines for safari. When an animal becomes overtly aggressive against his own kind, from either old age or injury, it is common for an accurate and skilled/experienced hunter to be asked if they want the honor of hunting that animal, with the goal of protecting the other animals in that region? After the “trophy” pics are taken, the animal is cleaned and the meat given to local villages. One large giraffe, for example, can feed a typical-sized village for 1 year. One whole year of food. Pictures are like statistics; they can be used to make the audience believe whatever story the author is selling. In fact, this isn’t even an <em style=“mso-bidi-font-style: normal;”>article, </em>it’s just a few pictures! Brilliant work by this author. He didn’t even have to write an article… you’ve all done it for him.</span>

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Mertz

#21

Just the sheer audacity to whine about higher taxes that he claimed would literally drive him from the state because it’d be impossible to operate otherwise, to now going on safari. I’d like to just be able to afford a road trip somewhere these days, let alone a damn safari.
I have no problems with people obtaining wealth. But whining to every news outlet that would listen about being oppressed by a tax hike and then jetting around the world a few months later gives me some self-satisfaction that I quit buying his crappy sandwiches after his initial self-aggrandizing.
I don’t mind Republicans. I can’t stand corporate hypocrites.

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Mertz

#22

I want to correct myself that clearly these are older photos (with the 2010 copyright), so it wasn’t a “whine about taxes” then get on the plane to Africa.
That said, the whining about taxes is still overblown and hypocritical in my eyes.

Jason Brown avatar featured_post

Jason Brown

#23

@YNOD - It’s Tabloid Photojournalism, to be accurate. So there.

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GK

#24

Two words: Nice. Sweatband.

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Kuzma

#25

You know, he made his money selling sandwichesNot in a no-bid contract providing weapons, or turtle tunnels for that matter. People want sandwiches delivered, so he delivers them. Not a criminal or morally questionable enterprise.
He does make a lot of money doing it.  I guess there’s something wrong with that by your estimation.
As far as the griping, how much does JJ (the man and the sandwich business) pay annually in Illinois taxes?  Six figures? Seven?
I’d love to see how much principle you’d have if the land of Lincoln came knocking for a million bucks every freaking year.
He employs hundreds of people in Champaign, and generates a lot of revenue for other businesses in this community.
What do you do?  Make snarky comments on the internet? I’m impressed.
“Jimmy John is so greedy. The government should take his money and GIVE IT TO ME!”
You are at least correct that it is sad when someone has tries make themselves feel powerful by killing defenseless animals.
But its also pretty pathetic taking potshots at other people just because they make a lot of money.
 
 
 

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whisper it

#26

I love it..  
“Whaaaa.  I’m not going to eat a ham or turkey or tuna fish or roast beef sandwich from Jimmy John’s anymore, because he murders animals in Africa!!!”  
 

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Chris Q.

#27

What a peice a fat filth.

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Matthew Apy

#28

Well, his sandwiches do have WAY too much mayo.

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andy

#29

Who gives a shit how he spends his money.  Rollemup  you are exactly right.  Pretty much everyone else on here can stuff it. 

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lga

#30

It looks like JJ already has his PR people at work on the comments here!
And, for those of you claiming that we’re all bitching because JJ has a lot of money, you’re wrong. It has nothing to do with his money. It has everything to do with the fact that he is a jerk. He has proven that over and over again. I dislike jerks with no money, too.

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Postal

#31

Wait till the photos come out of me pissing in his Ferrari next time I see it. I’ll be sure to have some leopard print undies on.

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cjfb

#32

The hunting safari was in Botswana.  The pictures can be found at http://www.johancalitzsafaris.co.za/photos/Botswana a Decade of Excellence/bots_photo_decade.htm   For information on the hunting safari package, go to http://www.johancalitzsafaris.co.za/bots_packages.htm  “All safaris take place in government and community hunting concessions or on game ranches in the Kalahari and the Tuli Block” 
I love a #5 unwich and a package of Jimmy Chips.  I am not in favor of hunting for the “sport” even if the prey is raised on a game ranch just so it can become prey. I would rather JJ spend his money supporting game reserves that help struggling species to survive.  I can make my displeasure known to him by hurting him in his pocketbook.
Many people who are “American success stories” and earn a large sum of money every year, or have large financial holdings, don’t pay income taxes - they live off capital gains and that tax rate is much lower than the income tax.  As for his company’s corporate taxes… who knows?  It would seem par for the course that JJ’s employs tax attorneys who get the corp tax payments down to the lowest possible amount.  His contribution to society is employing large numbers of college students.  I hope he is fair to them.
He can spend his money any legal way he wants.  I don;t have to support his efforts.

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Kahn Surtgohr

#33

while JJ is out crushing elephants with his gargantuan hands and cruising about in his ferrari (converted to run on the bone marrow of orphan children, so I hear), he also contributes a respectable amount of support to our local orchestra. good with the bad, eh?

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Cyrus Boone

#34

Although I happen to agree that big game hunting is disgusting and reprehensible, this “article” is absolutely pathetic.

This was an opportunity for SmilePolitely to engage in civil discourse and display journalistic integrity. This was an opportunity to raise awareness, to start a discussion. to make a positive impact on the community through insightful journalism.

Instead, we get dead-animal photos and four sentences of jeering opinion?
You dropped the ball, Smile Politely.
You have missed an opportunity for genuine incisive journalism here and I, for one, am sincerely, deeply and incredibly disappointed.

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lga

#35

No, Kahn, we don’t have to take the good with the bad. Does his support of the orchestra make him less of a jerk? No, not really. Is he more important (valued, esteemed, whatever) than the guy who spends his last $20 of discretionary income on a ticket? Is he more important than the gal that volunteers her time to usher the events? I certainly don’t think so. These are all people giving what they CAN AFFORD to a cause they believe is worthy. It doesn’t change what is at the core of their characters.
I am pretty sure this is the same attitude that allows JJ to sleep at night. (“Hey, I give my money to some things that I think are worthy. So, the cancels out all the other stuff.”) I don’t buy it. A jerk is a jerk is a jerk. In fact, many of his reprehensible actions didn’t require a dime. Just ask around town. It won’t take you long to hear a story of some crappy thing he’s done. Again, most of them could be committed any dude without any money at all.
 

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Feman Vate

#36

<span><span>That’s so sad, pulling a trigger to prove his courage by destroying these beautiful creatures. Never thought Champaign could grow this sort.</span>
<div class=“commentActions fsm fwn fcg”></div>
</span>

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Todd V

#37

What a scumbag. Just further reason to not eat his crappy sandwiches.
 
On Twitter: #boycottjimmyjohns
 

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Michael

#38

What a horrible excuse for a human being. Never touching another one of his fat-tastic sandwiches again. No wonder people abroad think Americans are all grotesquely overweight douchebags.
 

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RB

#39

Here’s some inarguable facts.

1. To all commenters that are missing the point of the article and whining about technicalities. Shut up. Seriously. No one cares. You’re not bringing anything remotely useful to the table or the discussion at hand.

2. The POINT of this article was that we have a guy invoking irreprehensible animal cruelty. Look at the pictures. Do you think Jimmy John used those animals for food? Shelter? I highly doubt it. Therefore, he was killing pointlessly, for entertainment, and to me, that’s completely sick and wrong.

3. To all that are arguing about corporate taxes and whining about the “tax dwindled” comment being made… why not have a look at corporate tax laws? If you have enough attention span and aren’t too stupid to comprehend it, maybe you’ll realize that corporate giants like Jimmy Johns are, in fact, paying less taxes. It’s not a potshot, it’s a mere fact. An irrelevant fact nonetheless, but still a fact. Shut up and stop crying.

This fatass killed an animal for his own enjoyment. Maybe he should kill a box of Zone bars instead. It would be a lot more productive in the long run.

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John Barker

#40

Thank God we have people like RB to tell us how to think. And that technicalities don’t matter. And that JJ is a “fatass.”
 
Good to know all of those things are “inarguable facts.”

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Matthew Apy

#41

I don’t know what’s more disturbing about the second picture: His thumbs-up or his gunt.

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RB

#42

Hey John Barker-

It sure is good to know they’re inarguable facts. Your absence of any argument just proves it.

Have a wonderful day. Enjoy the pictures.

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Greg

#43

I think a photo safari would have been more interesting than actually killing these animals.  Imagine being able to return every couple of years and trying to find the same animal and shoot a photo of them.  That would take more skill and prowess and something of which you can be proud.  Just a suggestion.

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Josh H.

#44

A rich guy that you don’t like went hunting… this is pure tabloid-rag material. I’m not criticizing, it’s just not what I had come to expect from S.P.. Well thought out and/or written opinions and ideas are cool, but this is just a poor attempt at slander.

Rob McColley avatar featured_post

Rob McColley

#45

“Slander” must be
1. harmful
2. spoken
3. untrue
So you might have hit on 1 out of 3 points. Not bad for a batting average, not good enough for Neil Diamond.

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David Foster Wallflower

#46

Ah the old common law offense of attempted slander…does that carry any jail time?
 
Wait a minute, Josh, could you be prosecuted for libel?
 
1. harmful - OP went to law school, so if he doesn’t know enough to carry out a proper slander, that would look bad for him.
2. written - check
3. untrue - We really need to examine this one.  It certainly wasn’t a “good attempt” at slander, so you’re right there.  But maybe it wasn’t an attempt at slander at all, which would lend support to point no. 1 above….  Or maybe it causes cognitive dissonance with that point.  This is all very confusing.  Either way, this being your prosecution for an offense of libeling another with an inchoate crime, intent is going to be key here.

Rob McColley avatar featured_post

Rob McColley

#47

Hey, let’s see if we can googlebomb our “recent searches” template so that every single one of the (1-20) items relates to Jimmy.
 
As of 8:19 a.m. it’s limited to queries 1, 3, 4, 6, 7, 11, 12, 19 & 20

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world j

#48

This is Smile Politley at its worst.  This is my first ever comment just to say I’m not down with this tabloid bullshit.

Rob McColley avatar featured_post

Rob McColley

#49

Yeah, right.

Jason Brown avatar featured_post

Jason Brown

#50

I’d remind everyone commenting on the atrocities of “tabloid journalism” that even such illustrious news outlets as CNN, Huffington Post, Fox News, MSNBC, and many more devote plenty of time/space/bandwidth to which outfit some no-talent bimbo is wearing, or the Real Fake Housewives of Who Gives a Fzck.
 
At least this has a modicum of local resonance, because the man headquartered his empire within the confines of Chambana. Whether or not you think it’s newsworthy, it sure did generate an awful lot of traffic. Which means that some people out there somewhere seem to think it’s worth noting.

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Stewart Dickson

#51

The C0mm13s already have Jimmy John in their sights.
http://www.iww.org/en/content/government-reports-reveal-jimmy-johns-lied-about-pattern-food-borne-illness-outbreaks-due-si
I love the C0mm13s.  <3
Hey, my Captcha word is “red73”—Perfect!

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bob andrews

#52

great… now i have find a new sandwhich place. thanks a lot, Seth : )
 

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cdc

#53

@bob andrews: I think you meant to say: Thanks a lot *Robert*
 
You know, since he was the one who posted this.

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Justin Hedrick

#54

I always get my jimmy johns sandwich minus the mayo, add hot peppers and mustard . . . i think his sandwiches are alright.

I dislike hunting for sport, with the exception of what is necessary for overpopulation, but that is a different issue that many who live in urban areas might not understand.  Were that elephant and tiger (nice shit eating grin, dub jay) used for food? who knows.

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Sidney Sheehan

#55

Jimmy John’s appearance, personality and sandwiches aside - this disgusts me.  I also kind of shrug at the topic of hunting for sport and most tabloids. 
But these photos really make me sad..  Like, Octomom-kind of sad and disgusted..

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Legend9nine

#56

He has seven Ferraris in a garage. Some have never been driven.

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IS

#57

African elephants are endangered.  Many species of leopards are endangered as well.  I don’t like hunting in general, but understand that some people hunt to keep growing populations down, etc.  But, I don’t think you can find anyone to defend killing endangered species.
Those pictures are heartbreaking, and although they make me sick to my stomach, it is good to know where our money is going.  I have been a JJ customer for over a decade, and I know Jimmy John has a reputation for not being a very nice guy to his neighbors, employees, and members of the community.   I personally like his sandwiches, but can’t stomach to eat them anymore after knowing where my money is going.
His reputation for a bad attitude never kept me from buying his sandwiches, and I could care less if he buys tacky colored Ferraris or goes on exotic vacations.  But, when our money is funding him doing something this sick and depraved, I draw the line.  I will never eat a JJ sandwich again.
Thank you to the author for sharing this.
 

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EDF

#58

He shot 2 elephants raised on a ranch? Does anybody know how long it takes to grow those tusks? Does he keep the ivory also? By the way I have never eaten  at his restaurant and now I probably never will.

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MHR

#59

IS - My thoughts exactly. No more Jimmy John’s for me. How people can shoot such amazing animals - that are really dwindling in population - is completely beyond me. Elephants are beautiful creatures who, among other things, mourn their dead. Despicable behavior and I won’t support his business any longer.

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Sickened

#60

I had heard that he has barstools in his home made from the ivory and feet of the elephants that he has killed.  I never believed it until I saw this picture.  The thought of people growing beautiful animals like this to be slaughtered makes me sick, regardless of whether it’s illegal or not.  Overpopulation is one thing, but just for sport is another.  What a douchebag!!

jon-a-thon avatar

jon-a-thon

#61

Here’s another audacious one: http://www.flickr.com/photos/81393376@N00/63884761/
#fanningtheflames

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jon-a-thon

#62

Sorry, LINK

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jaime

#63

just so you know, this is hardly new ground for mr. liautaud.

alaskan brown bear? check:  http://goo.gl/tplPY
montana bighorn? check: http://goo.gl/IJ7Ak (that website is www.barkerhunts.com, btw)
MORE elephants in these 2008 images from an anonymous JJ blogger? check: http://goo.gl/ofy4E 
 

username

Huh?

#64

Whoa whoa whoa, wait… back up to comment #33 by Kahn Surtgohr… “he also contributes a respectable amount of support to our local orchestra.” We have two major orchestras here, Sinfonia da Camera and the Champaign-Urbana Symphony Orchestra. Which one are you talking about?
Sinfonia’s sponsors are listed here: http://www.sinfonia.uiuc.edu/sponsors.htm
CU Symphony’s sponsors are listed here:
http://www.cusymphony.org/page.aspx?site=support&page=CorporateSponsors
Also, we all remember JJ’s bold threat to leave us all behind, while we’d be crying and begging him to PLEASE come back :_( See that article here . According tot he article, “He added that he… sponsors events at Krannert Center for the Performing Arts.” See those sponsors here.
If you don’t want to click on all of those links, let me summarize: Jimmy John Liautaud doesn’t give any significant monetary donations to the local arts. If someone would like to prove me wrong, I’m all ears. Thanks, and good night.

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A Boon For

#65

Silver Mine Subs anyone?

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Cyrus Boone

#66

This Chicagoist article (though obviously derived from this source material) handled the story with a greater degree of journalistic integrity. Chuck Sudo managed to write a few paragraphs and reference two other stories featuring JJ’s dispicable behavior without resorting to puerile editorializing. Kudos, Chuck, for letting the truth speak for itself.

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Totally Revolted

#67

DISGUSTING, I hope he loses all his customers…and I agree, we should all fund a trip for him in the saffari….minus the gun.

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AllSmiles

#68

If it turns your stomach to see the owner of Jimmy Johns posing with a dead animal, you owe yourself a trip to the factory farms that produce the meat you previously had no moral problem consuming at JJ’s.
To elaborate: Fast food chains/chain restaurants almost always get their meat from factory farms that do not raise their livestock humanely, because raising livestock humanely is expensive. It saddens me to see hunting that does not result in the meat being used (not sure if this is the case with JJ) and I try to buy all my meat locally from reputable farmers. Just wanted to point out that if it upsets you to see animals shot and killed for sport, consider the suffering of a cow that is raised on concrete in a stall so small it never gets to turn around once in its short life.

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AllSmiles

#69

I wrote comment #68 and would like to add:
Since writing that comment I have learned that the species JJ posing with are endangered. This makes it a very different issue. I’m sorry for equating his safari with factory farming, as the issues are apples/oranges when the fact that the species he was hunting are endangered is taken into account. Needless to say, I have not and will not be eating at JJ’s again anytime soon.

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Tom Sheehan

#70

I don’t eat Jimmy Johns products, not because the founder kills animals, but because his products are inferior to what I can do in my own kitchen. I don’t support Jimmy Johns corporation (and many others) because they substitute greed for ambition. I don’t support name calling because revenge isn’t constructive. I don’t necessarily support Smile Politely because I’m not sure what the intensions are of this submission. 

All that said, I think this submission does point out some serious disappointments in the evolution of our capitalist society. We have turned our discussions into Jerry Springer type free-for-alls as many hide behind anonymous monikers, throwing out insults as if they were solutions to problems that we could solve. You do realize by making “fat” insults you alienate 60% would be supporters, statistically. By making “retard” comments you simply exhibit ignorance of the subject and a lack of compassion comparable to a person who shoots living beings for fun. Many comments in this thread simply are attempts to lash out angrily, with absolutely no attempt to “right the wrong” that many feel.

I suggest that we all start thinking about “what we are really angry about”. Here are some themes I have garnered from the preceding forum:

The overwhelming disparity between “haves” and “have nots”.
The “rights” of living beings.
The de-humanizing evolution of our society.
Our shared responsibility….

I’m sure there are more, but these four just jump out from the computer screen.

I you are angered by these photographs and are moved to boycott JJ, please don’t stop there. Coca-cola, Pepsi, factory raised meat products, non-organic produce, etc. are other corporations who make the fast food industry profitable at our expense. If you tell me you don’t have the time to feed yourself—slow the f*ck down. If you don’t have the knowledge to be able to feed yourself—get it, the resources are all around you (especially the Common Ground Food Coop!). If you are simply a “have not” and are tired of the “haves” doing offensive things, don’t support their system—maybe by the time your grandchildren are old they we appreciate your stance. Support other “have nots”, we are the only ones fighting for our interests. [Steps off soap box, and checks e-mail…]

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Bob Andrews

#71

@CDC - i should have clarified… i didn’t know about this until Seth mentioned it when saw him at Canopy Club last night. So yeah… thanks to Seth and Robert.
@bob andrews: I think you meant to say: Thanks a lot *Robert*
 
You know, since he was the one who posted this.

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Susi

#72

<h6 class=“uiStreamMessage”><span class=“messageBody”>This is all absolutely true!  I used to print pictures for him when I worked at a local photo processing place, he’s been doing this for years and there are tons of picts of his big ass on top of dead elephants and other endangered animals kept in bourgeoisie game hunting places and held down for rich white men to come shoot. Barf. Glad someone finally wrote it up!!</span></h6>

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Cassie

#73

Seriously, this *is* smilepolitely at its worst. Agreed. You’re just asking for people to make derogatory comments about his weight that are really just disgusting in themselves, and also irrelevant. The fact that CNN/MSNBC, etc. also engage in this kind of stuff is no defense. Nor is the fact that lots of people will read offensive sensationalism. I also think the writers should stop being defensive in the comments and take readers’ opinions into account instead of trying to fire back at them immaturely. But if your hope is to increase readership at the expense of respect, go for it. I guess.

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Rob McColley

#74

I don’t get the “tabloid” criticism. If RH had photoshopped the pictures, or suggested JJ was pregnant with Lady Gaga’s illegitimate child, that would be sensationalism.
 
Publishing some (local?)(newsworthy?) pictures and adding a scant introduction to those pictures is pretty much what SPlog does every day—unless it’s filed under audio, or link, or word ... or video.

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Robert Hirschfeld

#75

I think now would be an appropriate time to update the original post, and weigh in with a different tone.

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Tim Green

#76

I am also rather repuled by sport hunting.
And JJ sandwiches are pretty bad.
But in th interest of facts, the African elephant is not endangered.  IUCN, the international body in charge of evaluating the conservation status of species, lists the African elephan as “vulnerable” but notes that its population varies among the four regions in which it lives.  For Botswana, where I believe these photos were taken, IUCN lists the elephant a s a species of “least concern”, that is to say not endangered.
Details are here:
http://www.iucnredlist.org/apps/redlist/details/12392/0
and here:
http://www.iucnredlist.org/documents/attach/12392.pdf.
 
So, JJ in this case was not shooting edangered animals.  Not that this changes my initial sense about sport hunting in general.

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John Barker

#77

“I also think the writers should stop being defensive in the comments and take readers’ opinions into account instead of trying to fire back at them immaturely.”
 
That’s the lifeblood of this place, though. It won’t go away.
 
Also, I have nothing to do with Barker hunts, if that’s what some other witless wonder here is trying to imply.

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Oh Boy

#78

“We welcome passionate and ideologically diverse views provided they are stated RESPECTFULLY and with DECORUM. Hate speech, bigotry, INSULTS, and trolling will not be tolerated. If the majority of Editors decides that your behavior is UNCIVIL, we will ask that you change it or your commenting privileges may be suspended indefinitely.”

I’m no fan of JJ or sport hunting.  Read that again if you need to. 
But it seems such comments are being tolerated if not encouraged.  Hell, the original tone of this “piece” ran afoul of the ground-rules set up for commenters.  They are your rules, gents, so it is only fair that you play by them
 

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Cassie

#79

It’s not really the “pictures + scant introduction” that’s the problem—it’s mostly, in fact, the title:
<h3>“Jimmy John is a big man.  With the photos to prove it.”</h3>
 
This is what lowers the discourse to incendiary remarks about his weight and associating his weight with his reputation as evil/a disgusting human being, which is irresponsible. Scroll up to comments for more info.

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Red

#80

I’d like to point out to those who are impressed by JJ’s corporate charity that donations are tax-deductible.  This means that the people who are able to itemize, and therefore deduct charitable donations (i.e., rich people), do so at the expense of the government, and therefore with funding that often comes out of YOUR pocket.  You are paying for that orchestra, library, or whatever.

The benefits are obvious.  Despite the fact that they’re getting a big tax break from the government for this action, they also get free advertisement from the beneficiaries, free good PR on local media stations, and in at least 50% of the cases I see, the money gets funneled back to them anyway.  For instance, my father is a gastroenterologist (stomach and intestine doctor) and his charity of choice is a local fundraiser which gives money to poor people fighting or trying to prevent colon cancer.  So his money gets him a tax benefit, free advertisement at the run, free news stories, and then the money boomerangs back around in the form of increased work, and therefore demand for his services, and therefore a partial justification to raise his rates.  And I get to pay for it whenever I buy a pack of smokes.

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Allison

#81

I got the d from one of his sandwiches last week. Never. Again.

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Cassie Conner

#82

Holy crap, there’s another Cassie! 
First off, it’s awesome that SP published this.  I’d heard rumors about JJ doing such things, but it’s impossible to ignore when it’s staring you in the face like this.  Delicious bread or no, I think I’m going to have to officially avoid JJ’s in the future.
Secondly, I also don’t understand the tabloid comparisons.  What, because there was originally no write up with the pictures?  The photos spoke for themselves.  A picture says a thousand words.
Thirdly, as a fattie myself, I do think that it’s pretty reprehensible to equate fat with bad.  The dude has enough real faults that we don’t need to judge him by the size of his skin rather than the content of his character.  I don’t know if that is what the person that titled this piece was going for, I’d be willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, but some of the comments are inarguably fat hate.  *The thing is that JJ seems to think of himself as a Big Man irrespective of his girth.*  Yes, he is such a important, influential man that he has to go halfway around the world to slaughter beautiful creatures in a setting that shows about as much sportsmanship as shooting fish in a barrel. Such acts of compensation make me think that perhaps not everything about him is big.

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Harley

#83

From what I’ve read, these images were available on the internet for some time to anyone who was looking for them, no? I haven’t seen anything that alleges they were stolen or posted inappropriately/unlawfully. This begs the question ‘Why aren’t public figures better at protecting their image?’ Why have this stuff out there? It seems pretty obvious that it is a bad idea to engage in (and to take pictures of yourself engaging in) an activity that is upsetting to many in the public, especially when you are in the business of selling stuff to the public. Naturally there is some anger/outrage when this stuff is brought to the attention of the public.

I really hope the JJ defenders aren’t professionals because they seem to be doing more harm than good. It is not helpful to point out that killing elephants and leopards is legal in Botswana.  Fine, it’s legal. However, this misses the point of the criticism and fails to diffuse it. It’s not about what a business owner can do in their private lives, but what they should do if they want to avoid situations like this. Besides, discussing the legality of exotic/big game hunting only encourages people to look up exotic hunting to prove you wrong. The argument that this is a man spending his   hard-earned money in his private life isn’t helpful either.  Lots of people are held accountable by the public for things they do in their private lives. Sure, he has the ‘right’ to spend his personal money as he pleases, just as others have the ‘right’ to be upset after viewing the pictures and to express how they feel. Statements like this only stoke the anger in those who feel that their financial support of JJ’s business afforded him the opportunity to go to Africa to kill elephants.   

This isn’t about a business owner being persecuted unfairly for being rich, and it isn’t a reflection of the bigger ideological battle for individual rights. This is about a man with an image problem. This is about a man who makes decisions that make it too easy for others to characterize him as an overindulgent elitist. Unless and until something is done to address this issue, and to prevent actions that would cause further harm to his image, this can only get worse for him and for his business. Sadly, his employees will probably be the ones most affected. This is why it is important for JJ to turn this thing around as soon as possible.

 —JJ meets the ‘public figure’ standard because he: 1. Is a well known person amongst the public; 2. Has a high threshold of public activity;  3.  Has inserted himself into public controversies in order to influence the resolution of the issues involved.   Slander/libel of a public figure requires ‘malicious intent’ in addition those listed in previous postings. 

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Carrie Siems

#84

WOW! This is just SAD and wrong on SO MANY LEVELS. I USED TO really enjoy the sandwiches from Jimmy John’s (#1 -The Pepe)- But after seeing these photos, I will NEVER set foot in any of his franchises again.

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Jessica Herzog

#85

I love Jimmy John’s sandwiches, but I am just disgusted enough by this to drive 5 minutes farther to Penn Station and/or Quizno’s from now on. Shame on you Jimmy John!!

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Carnivore

#86

What do you think me is made out of?
 

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John Barker

#87

Harley, that type of response here always indicates one thing: The toddlers have been running around gleefully for some time, spitting on each other and celebrating the anarchy of the place.
 
If you are insisting something is not libelous, then you are steering the analysis away from whether it is productive or beneficial. The pictures might pass that test, but the dozens of comments afterward about JJ being fat or the sandwiches being shitty fail miserably.

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Rob McColley

#88

John might be right about the tone—perhaps we should ignore issues of sandwich quality and obesity. But only because it diverts attention from the single issue: Jimmy John Liautaud enjoys killing.
 
Contrast the Tax Griping. I’m not bothered by JJ’s desire to find the best possible tax/benefit arrangement for his company. He has a fiduciary duty to his shareholders. He is definitely failing in that quest by posing, grinning, with his kill.
 
That the man enjoys killing is all I need to know about him. It distinguishes him from other people. And while I think population control is more important than saving every life, I could not take pleasure from killing. Obviously, plenty of other people feel the same way. Thus, many people ridicule JJ for his choices.
 
I think it’s the same—perhaps with a different and not always overlapping subset of the population—with obesity. We judge people by their gluttony, the costs they impose on society, and the degree to which they’re fantastic/repulsive to look at.
 
Obesity is bad, all the way around (sic). Should we pat people on the back and tell them it’s okay?
 
Should we approach individual chunks to express our solemn disdain? Probably not. But when we have an opportunity to ridicule a public figure, for reasons apart from his rotundity, we do tend to add the extra insult about his girth, where applicable.
 
I don’t like normatives, so I don’t care about the “you shouldn’t make fun of fat people” comments.
 
I’m interested in empiricism. I expect we do what we do for a lot of reasons, and that some of those reasons have to do with natural selection. Physical fitness is a component in our judgments of individual worth. If it were the only important component, we’d all vote for Sarah Palin.

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Robert Hirschfeld

#89

Update - a few more thoughts from late last night

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Robert Rhinehart

#90

So this is tabloid journalism?  So it was tabloid journalism when espn, cnn, fox, and everyone else reported Michael Vicks dog fighting scandal?
So what if someone wants to kill some endangered animals, this is America.  People died for our right to do illegal stuff.
Here’s wishing JJ moves to florida.

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WOW

#91

I actually like his sandwhiches. But like several other commenters, I am absolutely disgusted by this. The pictures make me sick to my stomach and just show what kind of person he really is. I have no interest in hurting the little people, but I have less interest in supporting these activities of animal cruelty. JJ, consider one of your loyal customers LOST. I know the little income I bring you isn’t even pocket change to you, but it all adds up and you are losing several customers thanks to your selfish cruel interests. Remember that you enjoyed killing God’s creatures when you have to answer to him when you pass away. That is not something to be proud of, as you clearly are.

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Cate

#92

Say - wasn’t there some bad press about JJ years ago - about something that occurred in his first store with an employee?  Oh wait, he was acquitted of that. So, that makes him innocent . . .
It warms my heart to finally see some people seeing the tip of the iceburg here.  Just not freaky fast enough!

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John Barker

#93

The toddlers here must feel proud. They can call business owners fat and feel good about themselves.

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dude

#94

Well, Illinois is rid of him and his family for now… they yanked their kids out of school and moved to Florida mid this year to avoid Illinois high tax rate… was costing him 30K a day supposedly.  Yeah, this dude has a private jet with purple leopard seats.  Now I know where he got them from.  The family is nice but Jimmy is not my favorite person… by any stretch.

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Kim Ferguson

#95

Thank GOD the spelling police showed up. I was a little worried that all these ignorami ;) (tweak tweak if you’re the grammar police as well)with their ‘valid arguements’ in an ‘adult forum’ would go unpunished for their minor errors. This seems like an awful lot of dick waving and nitpicking. Personally I’m glad to see people angry about this, even if they don’t always have massive throbbing brains able to pick apart even the most irrelevant red herring of an arguement. I think this article was obviously trying to get people riled up, as they ought to be about such unspeakable filth.  So whether SP did it right, well, I could care less. Anyone who thinks SP is real journalism anyway can feel free to read any other ‘article’ available here. That is, if your giant supercomputer of a brain has the time.

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Anonymous

#96

just because he trophy hunts and has more money then you will ever have in your lifetime isn’t a reason to hate him….should we not eat his sandwiches because he has hobbies? no! so continue eating and quit with the hate shit….grow the fuck up

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John Barker

#97

Anon, they won’t grow up. When you see the comments defending the “journalism,” you know the kids throwing rocks are trying to find ways to justify themselves.
 
I haven’t gone to Jimmy John’s since he mouthed off about the taxes. But lately I would avoid the place anyway. The salmonella scare was a factor, and I don’t like hearing crappy music at volume 11 while I’m trying to eat lunch.

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WhoDat?

#98

A defense of hypocrisy in the update?  I’d argue that is the real fool’s errand…  Besides, I think the hypocrisy that most people were pointing out was the picture of a trophy fish in the background of the author’s former profile pic (in an article critical of JJ’s hunting nonetheless).  That’s pretty obvious example of do as I say, not as I do…  It’s a bit of a stretch to compare that form of hypocrisy to eating “tofu harvested from mono-crop fields” while “acting as an accessory to a few of the prongs of civilization that have destroyed animal habitat.”

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David Foster Wallflower

#99

It’s also a bit of a stretch to compare one thing an 8-year-old once did with the serial killing of threatened megafauna by a 47 year old man and his fully evolved immoral compass.  But please, Jimmy John’s PR people, follow this strategy to your bitter ends.

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WhoDat?

#100

@David Foster Wallflower

I’m not a PR guy and I’m not arguing for or against hunting or fishing.  I just get worked up when someone tries to justify their own hypocrisy.  As far as the author only being 8 years old when he caught the fish, if he’s grown up and his adult moral compass points against sport hunting/fishing, then he should not display such a trophy on his wall.  I don’t decorate my home with things that I am against, even if only to remind myself that I’m against them.

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Rob McColley

#101

Hmm. I think I have a solution. 
 
What if Robert were to lightly fry an egg, allow it to cool, drape it over his face, and then take a picture of that pose.
 
Would that work for you guys?

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Robert Hirschfeld

#102

WhoDat? -
 
I would ask that you please carefully reread my statements above. I think you will find that,
 
1) I am not justifying hypocrisy.  I am accepting my own level of culpability in human impact to the landscape and its creatures.  But I refuse the implication that, because we are all complicit at one level or another, it becomes impossible for us to speak out against any wrongdoing.
 
2) I am not against hunting or fishing.  In fact, I would love to go deer hunting in Illinois once the season rolls around.  Preferably with a John Schulz-Howard Hill style longbow.  Deer populations are high (sometimes too high) across a variety of ranges, as they are very compatible with many of our land uses. 
 
The same cannot be said for elephant, leopard, and bear.  That the bear population may be healthy on one island in Alaska does not make me feel different.  He has chosen to kill an animal that is clinging to what little habitat remains for it.  If the overall deer population was similarly threatened, I would reevaluate as necessary. 
 
I think it is all the more important for people who support hunting and fishing, as I do, to step up and condemn this kind of hunting.
 
This is where I’ve chosen to draw the line.  Others on either side, PETA-members or big-game trophy hunters, may disagree.  You may disagree.  But I firmly stand by my ability to draw that line, and I believe in the basis by which I do so.

And finally, it’s not my fault if you’re incapable of incorporating irony or absurdity into your decorating scheme.

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Rob McColley

#103

Uh-oh. We’ve reached the comments cap.

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Tom Sheehan

#105

@John Barker I believe the people in this forum are indeed acting like 21st century adults, not”toddlers” as you try to assert. In general, toddlers behave far worse, they also lack the initiative and fine motor skills to type out their aggression. That noted, you truly subvert your argument against “name calling” by in turn calling people names. Especially, when the name you pick isn’t accurate… At least when they insult JJ because of his girth, that is accurate, all be it, insensitive.

@Anonymous you totally don’t get the point here. People are angry because JJ kills for sport, and killing for anything other than survival is widely accepted as murder. JJ isn’t making model airplanes here, or cycling on weekends. He’s killing, and very happy in doing so. The people angry here, know that when they buy his products, they are accessaries to that fact. I have to laugh at your final statement to drive home your “superior” argument: “Grow the fuck up.” How about you “grow a sack” and use your name in this forum? Own what you say, and feel.

*Apologies to use a sexist term inferring males as the more courageous of the sexes—that is not actually my belief.

@Whodat? I believe the author was merely trying to point out our individual environmental “footprints”, apart from the extremes some of us trod through the planet’s ecosystem.

I invite people to read, or re-read, comment #70 along with its typos, misspellings, and poor grammar and let’s see if anybody is interested in having a real discussion about the very real issues brought about by this submission of information. I’m not entirely sure that a blog site can actually be equated to journalism, so maybe we could avoid that mud slinging too…

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isaac arms

#106

a big “what, what,” to you Robert.
bully!

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Laura Hirschfeld Hollis

#107

Wow.  And John Foreman thought was an inflammatory threat?  :) 
Nice to know someone else is still causing trouble in town, and that I am related to him.  Also nice to see that one of the publications in town has the balls to publish an opinion that might make some people uncomfortable.  It doesn’t matter whether I like hunting or not (I support sustained hunting of non-threatened species for food), or whether I eat Jimmy John’s or not (I don’t, but that’s because I don’t really like sandwiches).  I also happen to support the right of any business to complain about taxation (and leave it they don’t like it); especially when the revenues generated are used as political payoffs to the incompetent corruptocracy in the city of Chicago that is bleeding the rest of the state dry (though I have high hopes that Rahmbo can change some of that).
Nope.  In my case, it’s purely personal enjoyment at watching some interesting journalism take place.  There ain’t much of it elsewhere, anymore.
 
 

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Josh H.

#108

We need to call Rutger Hauer, Gary Busey and Charles S Dutton, and insert J.J. into Ice T’s role in ‘Surviving the Game’. And if Jerry Schweighart or John Foreman are spied at a bullfight, I expect full coverage. (I’m in no way a proponent of either J.J. or safari hunting, and I am a fan of S.P., so… congrats for the traffic.) Yes Robert, I assume next time you’ll give more thought to the *ahem* execution of such an attention grabbing story. I also must say that it’s a shame that some of the staff commenting here don’t possess a great deal of decorum. (I will await the definition of that word as well.)

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Pete L.

#109

I would just like everyone to know that…
I am an insider in the JJ corporate office, and there are several people on this site commenting who do, infact, work for corporate and are trying to “disassemble” this article. It’s bad PR, but I am glad that grotesque man Jimmy is being exposed. I can hardly call him a “man”, I believe my wife has more balls than him quite honestly…
Anyways, just wanted to let everyone know as I am sitting here watching PR people freak out about this. Silver Mine Subs is way better, and this is coming from a JJ employee.

F**k you, Jimmy. Learn who you can trust, because your inner circle isn’t as loyal as you think they are…

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Sheree S.

#110

I boycotted his restaurants long before this because the customer service sucks, and if you complain about it, he will personally call you a whiner. Yes, because expecting to get what you pay for is totally whining. He is a giant fat douchebag piece of crap.

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Rob McColley

#111

Cool, the 100 comment cap is raised. Can we re-instate the deleted posts now?

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J.T. Hartke

#112

Aside from a personal disgust with JJ and his ilk, I wonder what this says about tax cuts for the rich? Evidently he did not choose to invest in jobs, rather, he chose to invest in killing threatened species to get his jollies.
At what point is he rich enough to hunt the greatest prey—man?!?

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Tom Sheehan

#113

@ Pete L. If one of your co-workers asks what size shoe you wear, you might want to take a leave of absence… They are probablly fitting you for some concrete galoshes.

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Tom Sheehan

#114

@ JT Harke I think saying JJ isn’t investing in jobs, etc. is an overstatement… the fact that his franchises are growing implies that he is “investing.” However, you do raise a point about hunting man. In remote parts of the Amazon (etc.), indigenous people are considered less than human. Killing endangered animals may be the gateway to killing them for sport. Then soon knocking off a few Palestinians (etc.) maybe next. Here at home? I hear Detroit is a problem…

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Deleted

#115

Comment deleted.

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Tom Sheehan

#116

Comment #115… Deep comment, or deepest comment of the day?
After that last idiotic remark (note: I am not calling the combination of letters and numbers known as “svh88” an idiot, just the remark). Please google the meaning of liberalism vs. the meaning of conservativism before advocating poaching of “liberals”. Most of the great achievements in the US, and the formation for the USA itself, are entirely due to liberalism!

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John Barker

#117

Tom, you mean things like the Welfare State?
 
In response to your earlier comment: You (and others) will never understand this, but it’s sort of contradictory to use dozens of posts to call someone “fattie” and then to recite the definitions of journalism and public figure. Just as an experiment, I tried calling someone here the same names already used, and that post disappeared.
 
Also, your sense of history is badly warped—often the case with liberals such as yourself. You cherrypick the facts you want and pretend the rest don’t exist. Ever heard of the Puritans, Tom? They weren’t exactly liberal.
 
Next time, pick up a history book before you try to deliver a lesson. Liberals: They spend so much time announcing how smart they are and so little time actually being smart.
 

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Benjammin911

#118

so, yeah.  basically it takes a gnarly dude to go out lay down one of those animals from long range (if he’s any good, that is) while the guide stands by and makes sure the lamer hunter doesn’t make a bad kill and endanger everyone. 
If he really wanted to show us something, he’d go out with native guides and take one down sans technology.
Erik Forman has way more globes than this guy.
 

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Tom Sheehan

#119

John, to answer your question about a welfare state… Um, no?
The major difference between liberal and conservative thinking is conceptual. Liberals consider that things might not be optimal, and that there is always room for improvement. Conservative thinking is more to not rock the boat, and that gradual change is safer for society. Personaly I think both have merit and lashing out in anger subverts either position. So, I’m not quite sure where you are going with the “fattie” statement, therefore I’ll let that one go.
As for having a “warped sense of history” I’m not sure what “historical facts” I have presented so please elaborate. And yes, I have heard of the Puritans. They were reformist, extremist, non-conformist, and most importantly activist branching off from the church of England (lliberal qualities btw). But from within their own sects they were very conservative in preserving their dogmatic approach to religion… interesting from different perspectives they were considered both liberal, and conservative….
And finally John, reading the books is one thing having cognitive skills to put things in perspective and critically thinking is another.
 
 

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John Barker

#120

Tom, I guess you have neither of those final skills, huh?
 
To help you out with the other thing you claim not to understand (a common tactic of liberals on the Internet is to play dumb and then blame the other person): It’s silly to have several posts throwing rocks and grade-school insults at JJ and then to come back with some sort of lecture about how it’s all OK because he’s a public figure.
 
Does that help you out? This presents a dilemma for you. Do you say yes, and then wrestle with the consequences? Or do you say no and continue with the “I’m dumb” tactic?

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Tom Sheehan

#121

John, Maybe you have me confused with another poster on this thread. I have not, and will not, post personal insults to anybody. I also don’t think of JJ as a “public figure”, regardless of that, I still do not support insults toward him.

There really isn’t a dilemma here for me. I believe that cognitive skills and critical thinking far out weigh rhetoric, knowledge, and jargon. I never play dumb. And no, your last comment is not the least bit helpful to me, or to the discussion about JJ’s lust to kill. If you intend to reply to this comment please add quotes from my previous statements so I can better follow your line of reasoning. Thanks, I hope to come to some understanding through this conversation.

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Tom Sheehan

#122

Ah-ha! Found the comment you have mistakenly attributed to me John: #83 authored by Harley, it’s in the last paragraph in case you’re interested in re-reading it. However, for our argument it’s unnecessary…
 

Rob McColley avatar featured_post

Rob McColley

#123

John’s fundamental probem: The puritans are not the founders. They lived and died a hundred years before our nation’s inception.

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Tom Sheehan

#124

Rob, I was simply addressing John’s statement that “they weren’t exactly liberal.” They most definitely were. I do believe many sects of Modern Protestant religion have their roots in the Puritan movement. But then again, this thread is actually about Jimmie John loving to kill animals and an overwhelming majority of commenters voicing their disgust about that.
 
Just in case anybody just tuned in…

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John Barker

#125

We’re completely off the tracks here, but that’s no surprise. Like I said, a common liberal tactic on the Internet is to play dumb, then blame the other person while muddying the discussion.
 
Speaking of which—when Tom started rambling about liberals founding the country, I thought he meant the actual traveling, landing, and development of settlements here. Of course, whether he meant something else or not, none of it has anything to do with the discussion about Jimmy John.
 
I have no idea in the world where Tom pulled misattribution out of. But again, it doesn’t really matter. 

Rob McColley avatar featured_post

Rob McColley

#126

John, using “liberals” as an insult is common—in the least flattering sense of that word. It fails to communicate ideas. It communicates only smugness.
 
As for the founding of our nation; if you think America is defined by geography, I won’t argue with you.  I think the USA is defined by our Constitution, written in 1787, ratified in 1789.

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Yo Dawg

#127

Hey  Tom…just wanted to say your daughter is awesome.
 
- Guy from C-Paign. LOL

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Tom Sheehan

#128

John, Unfortunately, you can no longer read comment #115 about “poaching liberals” which started the discussion and my defense of Liberalism.  In case you wish to pin the discussion about “toddlers” on me in the future, you can read where you started that discussion. In fact, any rant or tangent that I have gone on can be directly attributed to another commenter’s post, especially the people like you who would rather call people names rather than have a civil conversation. You appear to have a very narrow vocabulary and narrative that you wish to push this discussion; as long as you can write “liberal (in a negative connotation)” and “tactic” around some resemblance of idea you feel superior. That’s okay at this point I also feel my arguments and responses to your comments are far more superior to yours. The killing of animals for sport is repulsive.

Dear Yo dawg, or Guy from C-paign, LOL, Thanks, I agree.

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Jim

#129

Re #88 “We judge people by their gluttony, the costs they impose on society, and the degree to which they’re fantastic/repulsive to look at.” - By that standard Rob should be slamming fat people on medicaid who take public transportation rather than someone who pays his own medical bills and travels inside a nice car that shields your eyes from his corpulence.
Re #102, why doesn’t Robert think the Botswanans should be allowed to decide which animals in their own country they allow rich people to kill for money?  Is this worse for the environment than strip mines or factory farms?

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Jim

#130

Also re #88 where Rob stresses “the single issue: Jimmy John Liautaud enjoys killing”, how is this different from his own editor Robert in #102 who “would love to go deer hunting”?  The animals Jimmy John shoots are actually dangerous, unlike deer.

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Jim

#131

Re #126 ” As for the founding of our nation; if you think America is defined by geography, I won’t argue with you.  I think the USA is defined by our Constitution, written in 1787, ratified in 1789.” - The constitution is awesome, but nationhood was the Declaration of Independence in 1776.  Even that didn’t really found anything except a new central government to confederate colonies that were themselves founded much earlier for a variety of reasons by a variety of people.  If you want to use a geographical definition then the Americas were founded whenever pangea broke up.

Robert Hirschfeld avatar featured_post

Robert Hirschfeld

#132

Jim -
 
Be careful what you wish for. Rob just might provide you with a treatise on said issue.
 
Botswana — Straw man argument. This was never about Botswana’s autonomy, but rather Jimmy John’s.  He chose to kill these animals, and he will have to deal with the fallout.  That said, I take it you’re a moral relativist, and as long as a sovereign nation has legalized an activity, it can be condoned.  You should visit Pakistan.  They have some very interesting things you can do legally.
 
Is it worse than factory farming or strip mines?  I don’t know how to scale that, but I can tell you that I’m part of an organization that is actively working to change these practices as well.
 
Deer hunting — Comment 102 makes very clear the difference, as I see it, between hunting deer and hunting African elephants and leopards. I’m sure you can understand that Rob M. might disagree with me on that account.  Also, as for danger, how many car accidents have leopards caused on rural Illinois roads lately?
 
If it helps, I will clarify this in a further in-article update, incoporating comment 102.

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Keith Hays

#133

Florida’s loss is C-U’s gain…
 
Don’t let the cat out of the bag….
 

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Tom Sheehan

#134

Jim,
You raise some interesting points:
In response to Rob’s comment, I think “slamming” would be unproductive and off the mark. The real point here is that there is a shared responsibility by the individual and society. Being healthy takes at lot of work, knowledge and awareness. Knowledge is the most prolific of those three components. Work, at first glance, appears to be the least… However, I assert that awareness is the weakest link. Simply being able to pay you medical bills and insurance shows a lack of awareness of what “health” and how to live “healthy” truly means. Often in this society we “look-judge-decide.” Our visual cues of a person walking down the street—in a flash—become imprinted in our brain: fat = lazy, poor = dumb, rich = arrogant, etc. We immediately assume that a person is unhealthy because they are overweight, or that person is irresponsible because they are poor, or that person doesn’t care because he’s rich…. In fact we share a responsibility to ourselves and society to be more heathy. By being more healthy society benefits which then in turn benefits each of our individual needs… which then benefits society… and so on. Without this awareness, we simply gravitate toward the things that repulse us (see above comments).

As for your response to Robert. I would say that strip mining and factory farming are far more damaging to the environment and equally as repulsive (and I think he was trying to make that case in his additions). Which brings us back to awareness, and it’s importance! The pictures (knowledge) he provided, kicked in everybody’s “awareness” alarm, which is good. Many people now are becoming motivated to challenge the old traditions of corporate business, to think and act more freely by not supporting JJ because of his repulsive behavior. Perhaps, many will continue this line of thinking, and acting, by not supporting other repulsive behavior especially by not supporting entrenched institutions like the Botswanan sport hunting industry and the elitists who support it. All of this can be achieved simply by not buying the products that support those institutions. Then the void created will be filled by more environmentally and socially responsible companies and individuals. Milton Friedman you’re a genius!!

I do believe that this is the evolution of discussion that the original submission of pictures was intending to cultivate. If that’s the case, well done Robert!

 
 

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SRI

#135

This guy is sick. Definitely not eating another JJ sandwich. However, I’m not sure what taxes have to do with this.  We can’t complain about taxes? I guess the statists want us to just sit back and take it like good little sheep. On that comment, you can go #@%! yourself.

Down with taxes.
Down with hunting exotic/endangered animals for sport.

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SRI

#136

...why don’t we print these pictures out and hand them out in front of our respective JJ?

Robert Hirschfeld avatar featured_post

Robert Hirschfeld

#137

I will continue to update the main body as I see fit.  If you’ve been following along in the comments, you will be familiar with the gist of my argument as I’ve recycled some of these thoughts into the original post.

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.......

#138

The reason deer are “overpopulated” is because humans are killing off their predators, which is allowing them to thrive. Wolves? Get rid of them. Coyotes? Gone. Bears? Haha, fuck you Yogi. Wild cats? Come here, pussy… Foxes? Here, let me stomp on your head.
I don’t see any valid reason for killing animals other than humans for “population control”. There wouldn’t be that problem if humans weren’t fucking things up in the first place.

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....

#139

To expand, when I say “I don’t see any valid reason for killing animals other than humans   for “population control”.”, I say that to drive in that humans ARE animals, no matter how some **redacted by SP** people think. Not that humans should be killed for population control. However, if you look at the statistics….
 
 
 
 
Haha.

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G

#140

Everytime I had one of his shitwiches, it came out my ass faster than I ate it. This solidifies any reason not to go there.

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Sidney Sheehan

#141

Rob (#126) -
Hear, hear!  Using liberal (or conservative) as some sort of derogatory term seems trite.  Or rather, its a cop-out.
From John: “You cherrypick the facts you want and pretend the rest don’t exist.”
Funny…but I’m pretty sure this isn’t strictly a “liberal” characteristic.  Certainly many conservative christians do this day in and day out with the bible.  Conservatives (minus the christian aspect) do this too…so this comment really just ends up coming off as spiteful.
Also, “Liberals: They spend so much time announcing how smart they are and so little time actually being smart.”
Huh.  I must have missed the part in this comment reel where people started spouting off about how smart they are, certainly there are some intelligent comments here mixed in with some pretty benign insults…the above comment by John is not one of the aforementioned intelligent comments.
Robert, I’m really glad you Splogged this and your added material is definitely a thought-provoking read.
 

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John

#142

I feel no need to kill animals, I have a big dick.

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Beatrice von Beluga

#143

@John, I find this website to be very fitting. :P
http://dmgd.org/

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J.T. Hartke

#144

2 points:
1.  I make the allusion to tax rates because I think everything else had been said in the 120 comments before me.  I like to bring new ideas to conversations, not rehash the old things. I also find this stuff connected because Jimmy has made his opinion on Illinois tax rates quite clear, when we have so many problems in this state, yet he has money to blow killing semi-intelligent, endangered animals.
Meanwhile, how many of his employees were publicly educated by the State of Illinois?  How many of his sandwiches could have been delivered without federal, state, county, and city roads and their support and maintenance systems?
 
2. As to JJs job investment—how many of these jobs he “invests” in are above minimum wage, living wage, or have benefits? How many times more goes into his pocket annually vs. that of his least paid worker? Sure, those with the money to invest as franchisees have made money, but what is the average yearly income of an assistant manager or a deliver driver.

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Tom Sheehan

#145

J.T. Don’t forget that JJ corp., and really any corp, don’t invest in jobs… they are merely consequence of profit.

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Tom Sheehan

#146

Crap “doesn’t”, sorry for the Tea Party grammar…

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ractivist

#147

Wow, talk about a bunch of people who do not have a clue

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ractivist

#148

Jimmy supports the people of the regions where he hunts.  Most of these “paid” hunts are in areas of the world that depend on this activity for their lively hood and the sustenance of the indigenous population.  The meat is never wasted, the landowner makes money and the hunter gets his trophy, or might die trying when it comes to the big five.  These killers that Jimmy killed could all have killed him.  The terrain he is hunting in has plenty of suprise encounters possible at every turn.  Ever ran into a Mamba, or a leopard that is suffering from TB.  Elephants can hide and be unseen from as little as twenty yards in much of the habitat.  It takes a guy with balls, or no brains to pursue this passion.  Jimmy gots both, and maybe a death wish too, who knows….  I applaud him and am somewhat jealous to imagine the experiences he has had on these hunts, they have to be incredible in whole.
For the record, I made one hunting trip to South Africa and loved the experience.  Virtually all the land is fenced by the owners for hunting.  The tracts are usually huge and the game managed for a sustainable hunting population.  They know the value of the animals and make sure they are managed to maximize the carrying capacity of the land.  None of the animals that Jimmy hunts are threatened or endangered.  In fact it is this very hunting model that has brought so many back to hunting levels.
The ivory can not be brought back, and in fact it is poachers who threaten some herds in some open areas.  Not legitimate hunters who pay dearly for the privilege.
His sandwiches are great, I like the “Hunter club” best, roast beef, yummy….
I suspect most people who responded here voted for Obama too…....I even expect you will one more time, proving my point.

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David Foster Wallflower

#149

Also, it’s clear this entire operation is at the nexus of shadow organization connected with the Bilderberg Group, the Muslim Brotherhood (see Glenn Beck’s expose), and the conjoined return of the cyclical cicadas.

Robert Hirschfeld avatar featured_post

Robert Hirschfeld

#150

Thank you for the comment Ractivist. I like your Hemingwayesque description of the experience even if I disagree with the underlying assumptions. A comment I left on facebook that I think is appropriate here:

It wasn’t the recent and short period of time when hunting was made illegal that brought these animals to the brink of extinction. It was the few centuries of free-for-all trophy hunting. The market is happy to bear extinction or near-extinction if allowed. That is a demonstrated fact.

The situation has changed though, and perhaps it is possible that this kind of market could help increase endangered species populations.

I would note that these are rationalizations of the activity anyway. The motivation is not to support the African economy or propagate endangered species (which can be done in many different ways), but to have fun killing these animals. People are allowed to take that information and respond accordingly, just as they take information about the present context of trophy hunting and then incorporate that into their world view.

Yes, there is some incentive to keep a limited number of these animals around in order to attract the large sums that killing them brings.  But that does not mean there are incentives in place to truly broaden the reach of these keystone species’ habitats and provide enough range to support healthy populations numbers.  Healthy populations of keystone species are necessary for healthy landscapes, which are necessary for a healthy civilization.

A boycott is unlikely to hurt JJ financially. And I hate to see people lose jobs and suffer (though that is only the much-lauded market reorienting itself), even if they are foot soldiers in an economy which is based on heedless, reckless growth simply for the self-reflexive sake of itself.

Nevertheless, the free market requires information as much as it also requires a lack of corruption (something Africa has had many problems with - I wonder if you trust the USA or the UN to deliver aid in Africa with the same faith that you put in these game ranges).

If Jimmy believes in what he is doing, then he shouldn’t have a problem with having this information out there, and letting the public make up their minds. I would love to sit down with Jimmy and ask him some tough, but fair questions in order to hear his point of view.

On a separate note, I’d like to see a place in town carry more longbows, not just hi-tech arrow rifles that require little strength or skill.

Rob McColley avatar featured_post

Rob McColley

#151

If Ractivist is good with Photoshop and digital animation, he could create some pictures and a short movie chronicling  The Intrepid JJ’s daring pursuit of the mankilling beast, across the treacherous terrain.
 
Still, the essential point remains—unanswered by Ractivist of course. i.e. those of us who don’t enjoy killing things are sometimes off-put by people who do enjoy killing things.
 
Why do we feel that way? Is it learned behavior, or something genetic? Does it matter?
 
We are rational actors. We are market forces. We choose our capitalist transactions. We reward, and we punish.
 
In other words—and these words coming from a center-right perspective—sit on it, and spin.

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Tom Sheehan

#152

Thats the best description of the benefits of the policies which allows hunting for sport! And would almost win me over, but it is an unnatural manner in which these animals are preyed upon. The strongest, don’t necessarily have the best chance for survival, and could weaken the species in the long run. Maybe it works now, but…

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Peter Campbell

#153

For me, these pictures only add to a litany of existing reasons not to patronize Jimmy John’s: 
- aggressive opposition to attempts by their workers to unionize 
- active promotion of dangerous and demeaning racial stereotypes in their advertisements.  
If these photos get some people to stop buying at Jimmy John’s who previously patronized the establishment, awesome.  More important reasons to not patronize the chain have already existed for years.  

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Tom Sheehan

#154

Wow Trent… How much further can you get off the mark? Nobody here has advocated government intervention. It’s a pity your post appears after Ractivist’s well argued property rights vs animal right slant. And painting JJ to look more like Teddy Roosevelt than just some rich guy in the 21st century who still like killing things for fun.

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jason

#155

People just don’t get it, i think the pictures are great would love to kill something like that! GOOD JOB JJ

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JJ Hater

#156

Fuck Jimmy Johns even before this shit. I have had plenty of freinds work at his stores n have herd nasty horror storys that scarred me for life Jimmy u can kiss my ass with those big fat lips you have… And you can call me sir…

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Jeremy L

#157

@ David Comment #149:  I don’t really give Glen Beck much credence in his observations.  Here is a man who’s former employment involved ranting about Brittany Spears and Lindsay Lohan on a morning radio talk show for some hip-hop station in Florida. 

@ Sidney Comment #141: I agree with the cherry-picking comments.  Seems like liberals and conservatives tend to vet their source material for the sake of their argument.  In fact, I agree that this happens in religion, as well.  The moment that we all start stating the facts in full without excerpting them or taking them out of context is the moment in which our society can start having a meaningful exchange of ideas.

About JJ:  Not sure what to say.  I think his sandwhiches are okay for the price.  I would probably eat at one of these restaurants once every few months.  However, when I see these photos and in light of the acquittal from the alleged rape (?) charges that surfaced in the 80’s, AND coupled with his tax comments that he was losing tens of thousands of dollars a day in taxes by operating in Illinois, I wonder how self-important this man believes he is?  What is lacking in his own self worth that he feels he needs to allude to the immense wealth and success of his business or stand on top of large game animals who really weren’t born with the skills to defend themselves against predators with fast moving vehicles and high powered rifles?  At what point and to what extent (though acquitted) was the incident that took place with his employee really egregious?

In light of all of that, I feel sorry for this man.  I don’t know that patronizing his franchises and supporting his hunger for self assurance through wealth acts of grandeur is a good thing for us to be doing.

@ whoever posted the comments about his private medical expenses versus obese people who live on the “Welfare State” as someone suggested:  Isn’t it nice for rich people to have the choice to live how they want?  I guess poor people shouldn’t have any choices because it might involve burdening society around them.  Oh wait!  How did those rich people get rich to begin with?  Public education?  Tax breaks and incentives to start their businesses?  Aren’t those facets of the road to wealth more or less a burden on the public around them?

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Tom Sheehan

#158

Well thought, and well written Jeremy L.!

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Tom Sheehan

#159

I thought that the viewpoint that hunting of elephants lead to the increase of population seemed a bit illogical. So, I did a little research and found out that not only is it illogical, it’s incorrect. Elephant populations really started taking a dip in the 1930’s, long before hunting (in some countries) and subsequently ivory trade was banned (1989). Elephant populations were estimated between 3 to 5 million in Africa. Their reproduction rate is extremely low, one calf every 3 to 5 years, making them very vulnerable to over hunting.

The decline of the African elephant can be linked to three major factors: 1) desertification, which was a major cause for the disappearance of the species in North Africa and the Sahara; 2) the killing of elephants to satisfy the demand for ivory, which has been the major factor in reducing elephant populations throughout most of history (BC up to today); and 3) conflicts between elephants and humans for the use of land. Although the last factor may have been of minor significance until recently, the recent rapid growth in human populations in Africa has resulted in large areas of the continent now being permanently unsuitable for elephants.

Read more: http://www.animalinfo.org/species/loxoafri.htm#ixzz1PlOdjfc1

The banning of Ivory trade happened in 1989, and populations began recovering. In Kenya, the hunting ban happened in 1973, but the years  between 1970 - 1977 saw the most rapid decline. So, prior to the hunting ban and shortly after the hunting ban the most rapid decline happened. In fact, the hunting ban wasn’t properly enforced for many years. High dollar hunting permits, pay for park rangers. Those funds could come from non-lethal safaris, in fact in Kenya 12% of their GDP comes from non-lethal safaris.

Another side note, due to hunting for ivory and trophies the African Elephant has developed an unfavorable genetic tendency to tusk-less adults. A once thought of genetic flaw equal to less than 1% of the population, to now as high as 30% of some elephant herds. This is particularly detrimental to the long term survivability of the elephant population; they need their tusks to root up food and minerals needed for proper nutritional. How ironic that a owner of a fast food chain would not only lead to the poor nutrition of humans, but also to the African Elephant!

Rob McColley avatar featured_post

Rob McColley

#160

Tom, I’m glad you did the research. I’m glad you shared it here.
 
I think it’s unnecessary to prove that point. If the world were being overrun by elephants, that argument and its evidence would be important. Thus, it’s good that you provided some data for those who mistakenly believe the world is being overrun by elephants.
 
I think Jason #155 says it all. His comment sums up this thread very well. He thinks everyone doesn’t “get it.”
 
I disagree. I think everyone gets it. Those who like hunting respond differently from those who don’t like hunting. Those who like hunting—but only in specialized, ethically defensible situations—respond somewhere in between.
 
But Jason reminds me that some people are capable of typing, and using the web; and yet incapable of reading comprehension, empathy toward other readers, or  empathy toward anything for that matter.
 
To be clear, Jason—I know what you mean. You enjoy killing. You don’t understand why we don’t understand the joy of killing.

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Bill B

#161

Re #92 and #157 - just to get the record straight, his trial was the week of September 21, 1992.  He was charged with 4 counts of criminal sexual assault in connection with an incident that occured April 3,1992 with a 23 year old woman who was a former employee.  Liautaud was 28 at the time.  The woman said she agreed to spend the night but did not consent to intercourse.  Liautaud said it was consensual.  The jury found him not guilty.

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kuldeep

#162

I will boycot JJ sandwiches from now onwards.

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Pete B

#163

Anybody who attempts to criticize someone by using their weight as a cutdown is cowardly and insecure! Heralding  childish insults hidden behind a computer is a fate worse than the Animals this guy has killed. With over 10,000,000 gun owners and over 2,000,000 licensed hunters in the U.S. your comments are worthless and pointless. More than likely a reflection of your life. I am not a hunter, but I AM an American and I live free, not bounded by the shackles of cowardly fear. Get out and LIVE ! P.S. in Africa it costs approx $60,000 to kill an Elephant and that money goes directly into saving the 5-20% of Elephants that starve to death on their annual treck each year.

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Me

#164

Which one is the elephant?
How do we know he really shot these animals?  I can hold a moon rock, but that doesn’t mean I want to the moon.

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Hank Puckett

#165

Me, nice try. Next time, wait for the oxygen to hit those undeveloped brain cells of yours. Then post.
 
JJ Hater, there might be a literacy group somewhere near you. If you dare to venture from your house, you should seek it out.

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ractivist

#166

I wonder how many of you folks eat meat or even vegetables.  I’d bet everyone of you are guilty of one or the other.  Any debate here. You all kill, or are responsible for the killing of living things just to fill your belly.  I don’t blame any of you for such actions, as I would be as guilty if, if the facts be known.  Judge not and ye shall not be judged.  
The North American Wildlife Model is being implemented thru out Africa these days.  It is based on hunting and hunters who value the wildlife, and pay generously to be allowed the privilege to hunt.  Much of that money is then used to develop or sustain the habitat of the species involved.  One of the most moral aspects to this is based on not wasting the meat and is ethically the most important issue upon a kill.  These animals are not endangered in the areas they are legally hunted, in fact many hunts are cull hunts due to over populations at times.
One very obvious reality to this thread is the number of ill informed people that have responded based only on feelings.  And I understand this, killing is hard and not for everyone.  But it is still necessary.  Much like harvesting timber, one either cuts it down when it is mature and utilizes the wood, or one lets it rot in place, what a waste.  The same could be said for corn….it’s alive you know, it grew to maturation, it breathes, carbon in oxygen out.
Feelings, I understand them, I have them, but I also know we need to kill the whitetail deer in this county, and I do.  In fact I kill a couple of the youngest ones every year for a couple of logical reasons.
They taste great!
They are easy to carry out of the woods!
The herd must be managed!  Which means we must remove a certain amount every year to protect those that are left.  Carrying capacity of the land is a huge issue.  Car deer collisions are deadly.  Large herds tend to have old animals, which are most likely to get sick and infect the others and possibly wipe out the whole herd.  I do try to get a big one every year by the way, and we usually do, balance and all.  A sustainable harvest!
So in closing, feelings are the impediment that liberals must learn to balance with brains and understanding.  I do not condemn anyone here for what you eat or where you get it (gardeners included).  Stop condemning JJ and the likes for pursuing a time tested and historical pursuit such as hunting.  It makes you look foolish, it defines a bleeding heart liberal to the T.

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ractivist

#167

I forgot to mention .....
God gave us dominion over the animals, and it takes many forms.
Wasn’t it great to see JJ donate a million dollars to the YMCA?
He has a good side, whether you want to mention it or not.  His generosity has made many peoples lives better, as I’m sure many of you folks have done really good things with your time, if I know my liberals as I know my liberals.  I know your hearts are in the right place, just work on the understanding and the wisdom side of life.  We would all be much better for it.
 
And on that rape charge, as I remember she was in his bed wearing his t shirt, and only his t shirt…..hhmmm, some things seem to follow a logical path in these situations and then again some cry rape and look for a pay day in some situations….
Wasn’t there, just saying.
PS, Glenn Beck is dead on, Obama is a radical leftist who is destroying the Republic to usher in a fundamentally new framework of government.  And many of you think that this is good.  Useful idiots, suffering equally in the end.  America equates to freedom, the change he is working on equates to subject slavery.  Get a clue, your government is corrupt and subverted by those who think they should control every aspect of your lives….......and your helping them achieve this tyranny.

Rob McColley avatar featured_post

Rob McColley

#168

I’m happy to say god gave me dominion over ractivist.
 
Using only mind control, I forced him to post #167 because #166 by itself might have made him seem reasonable—apart from the “I’m not calling names” name-calling.

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I'm Lovin' it

#169

Sorry Ractivist but the Constitution was being shredded WAAAAAY before Obama got into office. Were you having this same coniption fit when George Jr. and his minions occupied the WH? Or was it ok then?

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racttivist

#170

Bush has been exposed.  Open borders is beyond forgiveable.  Glad to see you follks understand, somewhat.

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Annonymous

#171

I attended the date rape trial of Jimmy John that week in September of 1992. I was curious to see if Champaign County was really intent on hanging a rich guy. Liataud faced a minimum of 6 years in prison had he been convicted and I couldn’t believe Champaign County was really going after someone who had by that time, owned 13 franchises. I also have zero love for rapists and so my emotional preference going into the trial was that Jimmy would be hung and hung high. After watching the week-long debacle, I have to be fair and say I seriously doubt Jimmy was guilty and the case represented the zealousness of the state’s attorney’s office to be the first to prosecute a date rape case in Illinois. Despite the weak acting on the part of the “victim”, (she had originally thought she could extort $50,000 from Jimmy lest she press charges, but didn’t realize that once the state’s attorney took the case, it was out of her hands. When asked what was the force or threat of force Jimmy used to coerce her into sex, the “victim” said, “Well, everyone knows his family has mob connections.”) and the 13 defense witnesses (including Jimmy’s ex-wife); the all-white, and all senior-citizen jury took 6 hours to deliberate over the salicious sexual details of that enchanted evening.
After the not guilty verdict, Jimmy, in a stunning display of bad taste, posted an advertisement for his sandwich shops in the Daily Illini that screamed the following text: “Girls! Girls! Girls! I’ve got the big one!” The guy always struck me as an immature, over-sexed frat boy with too much money on his hands. Later that same decade, Jimmy hired a wood working shop I was employed at to make some sandwich boards. His reaction to our work was, “Alright! I’m gonna get a blow job tonight!” If you want to see where this guy’s head is at, check out the men’s restroom at the new Jimmy John’s on University Ave. in Urbana. The decor reflects his low-grade humor.
An interesting anedote to his philanthropy since that time is that when the Courthouse Clocktower needed another $200,000 to finish, defense attorney Steve Beckett was able to rely on his old client, (yep, Beckett defended Jimmy in the ‘92 date rape case) to pull out the checkbook in gratitude. His whining about taxes and his alleged treatment of employees (at least in Minnesota) is typical of the selfish capitalist we’ve grown accustomed to. But his date rape case from ‘92 is no reason to boycott his rather inferior product.

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Marie

#172

What kind of person kills endangered animals for the joy of it, a sad little insecure man.  My family and I will never eat at JJ again.  I will also make it my mission to never cater from JJ again for the many organizations and clubs that I belong to.  

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John

#173

I actually like his sandwiches - worked there way back when there were just 3 stores.  Bottom line though is that this guy really is a douche - saw it first hand.  Setting aside the rape trial, he was nothing more than a campus troll during my 4 years of college (in Champaign).  He could consitently be seen hanging out at sorority events acting like an immature 16 year old and picking up ‘women’ half his age.  Surprised noone has brought up the fact that he was involved in the death of his first ‘regional’ manager.  He was up partying in Wisconsin, called his guy up and said get up here.  It was snowing and the guy really didn’t want to go…tried making every excuse to avoid the long trip up there.  Eventually, Jimmy browbeat him into agreeing to drive up that night.  Long story short, due to the weather conditions, he had an car accident on the way up and passed away.  Truly tragic as he was one of the nicest people I’ve ever met - doubt Jimmy lost any sleep over it though.  I was standing right next to him during the whole phone conversation so this is first hand knowledge - back when the Urbana store was still on Main street next to Strawberry Fields.

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Mr. Moderate

#174

I would point out that those animals would be dead whether Jimmy John killed them or not. A certain number of animals are culled every year to keep populations in control and to reduce predation. Thsoe decisions are made by the local governments. Years ago, they discovered that not only could they get the aniumals culled for free, but that certain Western hunters were willing to pay large sums of money, in hard currency, for the privilege of culling the animals. The hunting provides a liivng for hundreds of locals, who serve as guides, bearers, scouts, etc. The meat is eaten by local villagers. Keep in mind that the Western hunter likely uses a large caliber rifle that kills quickly, while the locals tend to use AK-47’s and put hundreds of bullets into the animal.
None of the ivory or leopard skins come back to the US legally due to strong enforcement of CITES.

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Ken Barnes

#175

Ya’ll are just pizzed because he thought up the sandwich idea and you didn’t! If you had $50MM you’d do whatever the feck you wanted to do too! Funny how some people are immortalized in safari photo’s, like Hemingway, and others are demonized. Get over yourselves…

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kattie

#176

I have no words. This is nauseating, there is no reason for it. I can assure you I will never purchase something from any of their establishments again.

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Scott Smith

#177

Im hungry….im ordering a gargantuan with peppers

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Jose Burritostuffer

#178

I’m sorry, but you don’t get that fat eating sandwiches/

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